View Full Version : Seisan

Joel Simmons
8th February 2002, 09:12
Aloha all,

I have a question about Seisan. Does anyone know which particular styles incorporate Seisan in their teachings? I'm looking for a sensei here in Hawai'i, but don't know which styles teach Seisan. I know Shobayashi shorin ryu does since that's where I learned it.

I know I should just find the best sensei no matter the style, however, I really like practicing this kata and want to get better at it. I feel like I've lost some of my skill without the direction of someone who really knows what they're doing.

Dale Knepp
8th February 2002, 13:23

Actually most Okinawan systems teach a variation of the Seisan kata, that is there are versions of it in Shorin-ryu, Goju-ryu, and Uechi-ryu. Seisan kata is also practiced in many of the systems that combine those styles namely Isshin-ryu and Okinawan Kenpo.

I know Paul Ortino and Joe Bunch, both in Hawaii, teach the Okinawan Kenpo version that they learned from Seikichi Odo. I'm sure that there are other teachers in Hawaii that teach it as well.

Best Regards,

Rob Alvelais
8th February 2002, 15:39
Shito Ryu also teaches Seisan. Evidently, Itosu Kai Shito Ryu teaches a Naha and a Shuri version of seisan.


Joel Simmons
9th February 2002, 02:51
Thanks for the information. I figured most Okinawan styles would teach it, but I do know that there are a few that don't, such as Matsubayashi ryu. Unless I'm mistaken, but its not listed on the WMKA website under their kata.

Anyway, thanks again.

Jussi Häkkinen
11th February 2002, 21:53
Reason for Matsubayashi-Ryu's lack of Seisan has been discussed already elsewhere on this board.

Shortly: Shoshin Nagamine had already learned Pinan-kata when Kyan Chotoku started to teach him. Since Kyan used (and styles that come from Kyan still use) Seisan as a first and "ground building" kata, Kyan decided that Nagamine would benefit more from other kata. (Not to say that Seisan is only a "basic" kata, since it is also a lot more things).

Being familiar with Kyan Chotoku's Seisan (as taught in school founded by Kyan's most long-time student who had no other teachers than Kyan, Zenryo Shimabukuro), I must agree that Seisan is an excellent rootbuilder - and I also understand why Kyan may have decided to skip that kata, if he has seen that Nagamine had a solid base in basics. Of course, Nagamine would have learned something from Seisan, but I believe that Kyan's choice was a correct one.

Other interesting thing is that while Nagamine taught kata called Ananku, his version of it was totally different from the version of any other Kyan Chotoku's student. While Kyan's Ananku was a compilation of Seisan, Passai and Wansu (Shuri-te and Tomari-te), Nagamine's Ananku is something totally different. My personal guess is that Nagamine may have designed his own kata and named it as Ananku, in honor of his teacher (Also some other Kyan Chotoku's students made their own kata - Zenryo Shimabukuro made Wanchin, Tatsuo Shimabukuro made Sunsu).

Well, I guess that the answer was a bit wide. However, I add Zenryo Shimabukuro's (now headed by Zenpo Shimabukuro) Shorin-Ryu Seibukan and Joen Nagazato's Okinawan Shorinji-Ryu to the list of styles that have Seisan in them. Both of these styles have root in Kyan Chotoku.

Joel Simmons
12th February 2002, 00:34
Aloha Jussi,

I also learned Chotoku Kyan's version of Ananku. You are correct when you say that there a many inlfuences of Seisan and Wanshu in their. I never learned any of the Passai kata, so I can't comment there.

Thank you for the enlightening answer.

Jussi Häkkinen
12th February 2002, 09:03
Ah, and of course I add Isshin-Ryu to that list. Tatsuo Shimabukuro's style teaches Seisan as well.

About Ananku: Kyan's "version" can be said to be a "real Ananku", since, as far as I'm concerned, Ananku was created by Kyan. Idea was to use elements from Shuri-te and Tomari-te in same kata. (Personal belief: Kyan perhaps created Ananku to be an introduction to his karate. Taiwan has been usually connected to the birth of Ananku. However, Ananku has no signs of Taiwanese origin. Perhaps Kyan created kata in Taiwan, for presentation purposes or to be studied as "Kyan's karate" in basic level).

Tim Chilcott
10th March 2002, 14:05
Kenshinkan Shorin-Ryu teaches Seisan as well. One of our BB was stationed at Pearl Harbor and taught a small class. He has since left Hawaii, I'm not sure who is there now. Master Fusei Kise heads up the assn. on Okinawa, go to your search engine and type in Kenshinkan for website address and bring up the dojo directory. Hopefully this helps.

Be Well,
Tim Chilcott