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Robert Liljeblad
27th February 2002, 07:49
Gassho all,

So Doshin was appointed as the 21 th Master of the Northern Shaolin Yihemen Quan (Giwamon ken) in 1936 by Wen Tai Zung the 20th Master. When was Wen Tai Zung born? When did he die? Between what years did he study at the Shaolin temple?

I understand that the 19 th Master was called Huang Longbai. Does anyone know more about him? Between what years did he live? Who taught him? When did he study at the Shaolin temple?

What is significant for the Giwamonken style? I found that Dragger refers to the I-ho-Ch’uan as the “Righteous and harmonious Fists” is this the Giwamon ken style?

Many questions from,

Anders Pettersson
22nd June 2002, 17:10
Just bumping this one to the top again.
Anybody that can give Robert some answers?

Also I think that Robert means Draeger and not Dragger. :)

Tripitaka of AA
9th August 2002, 06:18
The Busen academy at Hombu, where they train the next generation of instructors, have lessons in all aspects of SK. I remember they said that much research was being made into historical origins of the techniques and ancestry. I wonder what they have discovered. Tracing back the history of "secret" societies must be very difficult.

Am I right in thinking that some, possibly most, of the secret societies that maintained Shaolin kung fu became the basis for "triads". Triads are blood-brother type of organised crime gangs that exist in China - equivalent to Italian Mafia, or Japanese Yakuza. I don't suppose that they have a lot of documented history to research!

I've often felt ill-informed about Chinese history, which seems fascinating. It troubles me that in China, the British are said to be despised for their role in the "Boxer Rebellion", yet I know nothing about it. That period in China's history seems to have had an enormous impact on the Martial Arts. DOes anyone know a good book I can read?

Kimpatsu
9th August 2002, 07:30
Originally posted by Robert Persson
What is significant for the Giwamonken style
Gassho.
Giwamonken, which as a separate style no longer exists, was taught exclusively using embu, and is the style from which Shorinji Kempo derives its embu practice. As far as I know, it's the only style ever to use such as system, until Shorinji Kempo came along. This is what made it unique. HTH.
Kesshu.

Tripitaka of AA
17th November 2003, 08:37
Bump!

Check the dates, to see just how big a bump this has been

KempoCat
19th November 2003, 21:32
David N,

im currently reading a book which talks bout the boxer rebellion. it doesnt so much as concentrate on the martial aspect what they did, its more of a historical read. the book uses diary extracts from the ambassadors from what was then the British empire, the french and also from the US. unfortunately, it can turn out to be a one sided perspective. nevertheless, i hope it will shed a little more light on the topic of the boxers. the book is called "The Boxer Rebellion" by Diana Preston ISBN 0-8027-1361-0

Tripitaka of AA
20th November 2003, 05:56
Thanks Felix, much appreciated.

It soon becomes apparent, when watching the Hong Kong and Mainland China Action Movies that are set in period costume, that Japanese and British are the most popular "bad guys". It would be nice to know why we are so despised... perhaps there a few stories about the hideous Brits that every Chinese person knows, that we should be aware of.

Juan
20th November 2003, 11:19
Originally posted by Tripitaka of AA
It would be nice to know why we are so despised... perhaps there a few stories about the hideous Brits that every Chinese person knows, that we should be aware of.

Mmm, let's see. The Opium Wars (http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CHING/OPIUM.HTM) maybe? :rolleyes:

tony leith
20th November 2003, 14:32
I'll go out on a limb and agree with Juan on this one as to why Brits and Japanese would be a Chinese moviemaker's bad guys of choice. The Opium wars were pretty egregious, even by the standards of Perfidious Albion's well, perfidy. Like some heavily armed Mrs Doyle from Father Ted, we insisted that the Chinese buy our opium and we just wouldn't take no for an answer ( "Ah go on. Go on. Go on.Go on.Go on.Go on.Go on. Or we'll kill you"). I just listened to Messrs Blair and Bush helpfully explaining why the West has the moral whip hand over any other culture on the planet. You have to be determinedly blind to history to be able to offer an unqualified argument of that nature.

As to the Japanese, I'm afraid that what they did in China in the last century ranks up there with the worst of 'man's inhumanity to man' of the period. From what I understand, there isn't an equivalent concept to 'Holocaust denial' in Japan, because the whole society has been in a pretty effective state of denial about what was done in its name since WWII.

And just to make clear that I consider myself to be as thoroughly morally contaminated as anybody else, I should point out that despite the fact that we have portraying ourselves as victims of English imperialism ever since, Scots were busily engaged in running the British Empire right alongside the English. In fact, getting a slice of the action was probably the decisive factor in getting us to sign up the Act of Union with England in the first place (six hundred years of the English trying to batter us into submission, and only then does it occur to them to try buying us).

Humans, ya gotta love 'em

Tony leith

Casero
29th November 2003, 21:20
Hello there. Here you are some answers:

- Apparently Wen Taizong was over sixty years when So Doshin met him. He was born in Deng Feng Xian region of Henan province, but we don´t know when and where he died. Wen was a Shaolin monk, but he left the temple in 1912, and then he joined Gelaohui (Elder Brothers Society). There he became the disciple of Huang Longbo, the 19th Grand Master of the Qinzi school of the Shaolin Yihemen Quan.
- We know almost nothing about Huang Longbo, but apparently he didn’t study in Shaolin. When Wen met him after 1912, Huang was over seventy and he lived in Xizhimen Gate of Beijing.
- Giwamonken is “Yihemen Quan” or “Yihe Quan” in Mandarin, (Yi Ho Kuen, in Cantonese). It means “Righteous and Harmonious Boxing”. But Yihe Quan was a secret society and also a Kung Fu style (Meihua Quan or Plum Blossom Style). We don´t know which of both was So Doshin referring to.
- As for Giwamonken and “embu practice”, in Kung Fu styles there are no sparring techniques having a name as in Japanese classic styles of Jujutsu; but in all Chinese styles exist sparring practice (duilian, tui shou, san shou, chi sao, etc). This one is called “Chengquan” in Meihua style. However there is a style named “Er Lang Quan” (Two Men Boxing) that always requires two people to practice it together. (By the way, “Nioken” is spelling “Er Wang Quan” in Chinese…)
- As for what is significant for the Meihua Quan style (Yihe Quan) look it up in www.meihuazhuang.org

Regards

Rogelio Casero

Tripitaka of AA
30th November 2003, 03:45
Thanks Rogelio

You don't post very often on this board (just 8 times as I write this), but every time you give fascinating and detailed answers to the questions that were asked. Your information seems to be backed up by serious research and an eye for accuracy that most of us can only dream of.

I can't help but see the irony of a comparison between your 8 posts of significant, detailed, useful data... and my 700+ trivial, vague and biodegradable nonsense :( :D


I'll carry on posting my nonsense, if it helps to encourage you to post the real stuff. Thanks again :)

:nw: :smilejapa :nw: