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John Lindsey
4th March 2002, 03:52
Tonight while reading through a Hwa Rang Do website, I remembered about Mike Echanis, who was probably the best know person from this art. Mike was also on the staff of Soldier of Fortune magazine and wrote a few articles (that I still have) on sentry removal. He also wrote 3 books I think.

Over the years since he died, I have heard various stories that his level of training in Hwa Rang Do was rather limited. Does anyone know what other martial arts he might have studied?


I remember when Echanis died, since I was in the Army at that time, assigned to the 2nd Ranger Bn. Bravo Company used to have a hand to hand demo team and they were putting on a show for some British Generals visiting Ft. Lewis around November of 1978. Well, the NCOIC of the demo unit dedicated the show to the memory of Echanis. From what I recall, Echanis was dropping frags and smoke grenades out of a airplane and suddenly the plane blew and fell into a lake. Not sure of any other details.

Later when I was in the SF engineer course at Bragg, I went out drinking with some of my SF buddies. I met this one martial artist who was assigned to 5th group. All I can recall is that he had a piece of a telephone poll hanging by a chain from a tree and that he used it as his punching bag. Also, he recently (at that time) got assigned to go teach martial arts to a CIA team that I think was called 'the Fog' or something like that. He mentioned that he always refused to take their polygraph test since after "what happend down south with Mike Echanis." I guess he was down there too. I remember him showing me his travel orders and how they routed him through 5 different places before ending up at the CIA!

One of the senior Japanese instructors in the Bujinkan organization named Nagato says that he knew Echanis and was even invited to go help him teach down South.

When I was going through the Special Forces' SOT course at Mott Lake, we would often have martial arts training in the morning. It was in a big round pit full of sawdust. The cadre commented on how this was the place where Echanis taught. All I can remember from the training is that we used an old tire as a portable kicking target.

Thats about all I remember :).

John Lindsey
4th March 2002, 04:27
I also remember a rumor that Echanis made a short training film. In it, he performs knife cuts against a side of beef. He also supposedly kills an attack dog by putting his hand down its throat as it starts to bite him.

I only heard this story from one person and would be interested if anyone has heard anything else...

Walker
4th March 2002, 15:37
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=95448

Be sure you have some time. It’s long.

Gene Gabel
8th March 2002, 04:36
Originally posted by John Lindsey
I also remember a rumor that Echanis made a short training film. In it, he performs knife cuts against a side of beef. He also supposedly kills an attack dog by putting his hand down its throat as it starts to bite him.

I only heard this story from one person and would be interested if anyone has heard anything else...
............................
I seem to remember that he was with some Central American's with scrambled eggs on their hats at the time the chopper went down.
I remember those hand to hand pits (at Ft Benning) in 1966 very well
All the WAy

GEne Gabel

Budoka 34
1st April 2002, 16:11
John:
Have you ever seen the goat video? Supposed milvid late 80s.

R. Kite
Budoka 34

yamatodamashii
7th April 2002, 13:02
Okay, this is what I've got (sorry it isn't first hand):

My Hwa Rang Do instructor was Frances "Butch" Fowlkes, who trained under Echanis in HRD in the Army. According to him, Echanis was originally involved in tae kwon do (I believe ITF); his instructor heard of HRD and sent Echanis to a local dojang to find out what they were doing. Echanis fell in love with HRD and never went back to tkd.

To the best of my knowledge, SGM Lee has not allowed students of HRD to train in other martial arts simultaneously with HRD, although he seems to have gotten more strict on this in recent years (I am no longer with his organization).

As for the "not much training"... I don't know how far Echanis actually got in *rank*, but the single time I met SGM Lee (at a seminar in Moberly, MO), he referred to Butch (my instructor) as "My best student's best student".

yamatodamashii
8th April 2002, 08:17
After some rumination, I know that Echanis was above 3rd dahn when he died, because that was Butch's rank at the time. Also, only three people were allowed to hold rank above 7th dan, and Echanis wasn't one of them. So that narrows the field a bit.

Budoka 34
8th April 2002, 18:42
:nin:
Has anyone seen the SOF articles that Enchanis wrote? He did some interesting stuff on sentry removal and knife fighting.

:smilejapa

Onmitsu
6th February 2007, 15:34
There's a group out in Florida that seem to be carrying on the Sul sa do legacy.
The head instructors name is Shinobi Orlando. Check out the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrfMwHnmoJs

trevorg
7th February 2007, 21:23
I have two of Mike Echanis's books (1) knife fighting,knife throwing for combat, and (2) knife self-defence for combat. bought in the late 70s when they were restricted circulation over here.

One of my earlier teachers here in the UK,Mike Finn, had learned some knife stuff from Mr Echanis and regarded him,as did others,as one very serious fighter.

His private tutor, Joo Bang Lee, is described as the grandmaster of hwarangdo in an unbroken line of succession lasting over 1,800 years,directly descending from the two warriors and hwarangdo masters of Won Kwang Bopsa's time,Kui San and Chu Hwang.

There is no mention of any grades in the books or his earlier history, other than militarily.

Hope this helps a bit.
Osu
Trevor

Jason Chambers
7th February 2007, 22:45
Alrighty then....




There's a group out in Florida that seem to be carrying on the Sul sa do legacy.
The head instructors name is Shinobi Orlando. Check out the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrfMwHnmoJs

elder999
8th February 2007, 00:20
After some rumination, I know that Echanis was above 3rd dahn when he died, because that was Butch's rank at the time. Also, only three people were allowed to hold rank above 7th dan, and Echanis wasn't one of them. So that narrows the field a bit.

Yeah, but apparently he received that rank posthumously, in Nov. 1978. He was killed in September, 1978. I read everything in Soldier of Fortune back then, though, and have the originals of all three books...good stuff....

Kikbaq
9th February 2007, 05:48
I read an article once about Nagato Shihan and his relationship with Echanis. I guess prior to joining the Bujinkan, Nagato was a Judo coach at the University here in my area. I can't quite recall if he was friends with Echanis prior to his having joined the Bujinkan or not. I find the subject quite interesting because Mr. Echanis had this reputation for being a very hard-core martial artist. Does anybody know anymore about the article I am thinking of?

Loukopoulos
20th February 2007, 14:56
Yeah, but apparently he received that rank posthumously, in Nov. 1978. He was killed in September, 1978. I read everything in Soldier of Fortune back then, though, and have the originals of all three books...good stuff....


How can I obtain copies of these books? I have a copy of a copy of a copy...

elder999
20th February 2007, 15:18
How can I obtain copies of these books? I have a copy of a copy of a copy...


I'm pretty sure they've all been released by Ohara publications, and are widely available. Look here (http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch?catalog=yhst-69416399359676&query=Echanis&.autodone=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shopblackbelt.com%2Fnsearch.html)

Paul Mathews
21st February 2007, 21:53
There's a group out in Florida that seem to be carrying on the Sul sa do legacy.
The head instructors name is Shinobi Orlando. Check out the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrfMwHnmoJs

After viewing that it would appear that Sul sa do translates as the way of the B-movie ninja wannabe. :rolleyes: