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Geoff
7th March 2002, 20:07
Can anyone provide information on the kata Tenryu no Kon. It is the only bo kata we practice in my (Shotokan) school and was reportedly Funakoshi's favorite bo kata. Since Funakoshi's father was a bojutsu expert I'm wondering if this form came from him or from one of Funakoshi's other teachers. How widespread is this form in other styles?

Also, a description of the stance used for the major block and attack sequence would be helpful. Some in my school do it the "Shotokan way", with a long front stance. Others (my teacher included) do it with a shortened front stance, somewhere between moto-dachi and a natural stance, which seems more logical, but less in accordance with the changes that occurred as Shotokan stances were lengthened in the 1930's.

Any idea why this kata was not affected by the Shotkan stance change? Perhaps, the delation of weapons' kata from the JKA syllabus is part of it, Tenryu no Kon could have just been ignored by the JKA people. However, my Shotokan lineage broke from the JKA lineage fairly early most of our kata are quite similar to the early (1960's) JKA forms having long stances, but this bo kata and a few others conspicuoulsy have evloved (or have not evelved) differently.

Sorry about the Japanese karate digression in the Ryukyuan thread, but I didn't know where else to post a bojutsu question.

Thanks,

Geoff Wingard

Harry Cook
8th March 2002, 12:04
Dear Geoff,
Kanken Toyama taught Tenryu no Kon. Toyama almost certainly learned the kata from Chojo Oshiro. It is very likely that Oshiro taught Yoshitaka Funakoshi. Bob McMahon recently published a booklet on "Shoto Bojutsu" which includes illustrations of the Toyama version.
It seems to me to be quite a basic form, something like Shuji no sho.
Hope this is of use,
Yours,
Harry Cook

Geoff
9th March 2002, 00:47
Thanks Harry,

As always ready with the answer. That helps, but I wonder if elder Funakoshi did the form, as well? I haven't got Bob MacMahon's booklet yet, but I do remember him writing at one time that Gichin as well as Gigo did the form.

It does seem like a basic form. Although I found out that I had the applications all screwed up until I actually had the opportunity to try the techniques from the kata bo to bo and bo to bokken with a friend. That's probably due to my incompetence with anything more complicated than walking and chewing gum, but I do think it is a good, no-nonsense intro bo kata.

Take care,

Geoff Wingard

Harry Cook
9th March 2002, 11:32
Dear Geoff, if you make it to the St. Louis Spring Camp in April perhaps you would be so kind as to show me the kata?
It would be intersting for me to compare it to the"feeling" of Shuji no sho.
Yours,
Harry Cook

Geoff
11th March 2002, 14:13
If I can get the time off from work I will definately be there, bo in hand.

Geoff Wingard

Rob Alvelais
11th March 2002, 15:19
Originally posted by Harry Cook
Dear Geoff, if you make it to the St. Louis Spring Camp in April perhaps you would be so kind as to show me the kata?
It would be intersting for me to compare it to the"feeling" of Shuji no sho.
Yours,
Harry Cook

Harry,

It's on Bob's website in the video clip section. His son is performing it, I believe.


(www.aka.com.au)

Rob

Harry Cook
12th March 2002, 15:24
Thank you Rob, it is very interesting. The beginning does remind me of Shuji no sho with touches of Shuji no dai as taught in the Inoue system. I was taught both of these kata by my good friend Julian Mead. It might be that Tenryu is linked to both of these kata, perhaps a derivation or summary of them?
Yours,
Harry Cook

ozebob
2nd April 2002, 00:16
Hi Geoff,


Originally posted by Geoff
Can anyone provide information on the kata Tenryu no Kon. It is the only bo kata we practice in my (Shotokan) school and was reportedly Funakoshi's favorite bo kata. Since Funakoshi's father was a bojutsu expert I'm wondering if this form came from him or from one of Funakoshi's other teachers. How widespread is this form in other styles?

# I have read that both Funakoshi's father and Uncle were bojutsu adepts. I am told that the Toyama version of Tenryu (Heavenly Dragon) is similar to that taught by Murakami Katsumi. Funakoshi also taught Sunakake no Kon and again, the version taught by Murakami matches that taught by other Shotokan Teachers such as Ryobukai's Yamazaki Kiyoshi. In my research to date, it has been difficult to pinpoint the exact origins of anything :)

Also, a description of the stance used for the major block and attack sequence would be helpful. Some in my school do it the "Shotokan way", with a long front stance. Others (my teacher included) do it with a shortened front stance, somewhere between moto-dachi and a natural stance, which seems more logical, but less in accordance with the changes that occurred as Shotokan stances were lengthened in the 1930's. Any idea why this kata was not affected by the Shotkan stance change? Perhaps, the delation of weapons' kata from the JKA syllabus is part of it,

# If you purchase my Shoto Bo Booklet (hint :), you will see Gigo Funakoshi demonstrate Shushi no Kon and Sakugawa no Kon in the long shotokan stances. I think he was just creating a bridge between his bojutsu and shotokan karate though as in application, shorter stances are imperative for mobility.

Tenryu no Kon could have just been ignored by the JKA people. However, my Shotokan lineage broke from the JKA lineage fairly early most of our kata are quite similar to the early (1960's) JKA forms having long stances, but this bo kata and a few others conspicuoulsy have evloved (or have not evelved) differently.

# Nakayama had no training in the bojutsu of Gigo and after ww2, training in weapons would not have been encouraged by the Americans.
I feel that Nakayama and co. had enough on their hands trying to remember the kata and finding someone willing to bring them up to speed on the changes that had occurred during the period that Nakayama was in China (1937-46).

Geoff Wingard

Regards,
Bob McMahon

ozebob
2nd April 2002, 00:21
Hi Harry,


Originally posted by Harry Cook
Dear Geoff,
Kanken Toyama taught Tenryu no Kon. Toyama almost certainly learned the kata from Chojo Oshiro. It is very likely that Oshiro taught Yoshitaka Funakoshi. Bob McMahon recently published a booklet on "Shoto Bojutsu" which includes illustrations of the Toyama version.
It seems to me to be quite a basic form, something like Shuji no sho.
Hope this is of use,
Yours,
Harry Cook

Tenryu fits in perfectly before Shushi no Kon and Sakugawa followed by Matsukaze and Hakuson form a well structured logical progression of bojutsu.

There is a lot of similarity in the sliding of the bo to Yamaneryu s I also feel that Oshiro Chojun has had a big influence on Gigo's bojutsu.

Regards,