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John Lindsey
7th March 2002, 22:10
Here is some more information on our karma system. First of all, consider this a beta test. Some of you are worrying too much about this :).

In the past, there was no way for us to have a members rating, except by going by how many messages were posted. This is what signifies the difference between the New Members, Members, and Senior Members titles. But, it says nothing in regards to the quality of the messages and how your fellow members feel about what you posted. You might post a lot of messages, but have little content worth reading. Or maybe you enjoy starting arguments or posting inflammatory remarks.

The software has specific settings in regards to what awards you with karma. For instance, if you post a message, you get karma. If a certain number of people reply, you get more. If it is read (message views) a certain number of times, you get more for being popular. But, your message now allows your peers to rate your message. So, while you can get points by posting, you can actually loose karma if enough people think it is not worthy. Everyone who replies to your message is also open for peer review.

To give someone good or bad karma, simply click on the karma icon on the far right bottom corner of the message. You will then have the choice of what kind of karma you want to give, and any short message to the poster as well.

Moderators can give karma as well. This can be to reward posters in their forum, or to punish those who are causing trouble.

In my case, I have handed out bad karma to members who fail to follow the rules, especially about signatures. Thus, a new member with low good karma will immediately see the error in their ways. For the most part, that is all the karma I dish out. It is interesting to sit back and watch the karma logs and see some of you battling back and forth between good and evil. For instance, Richard Ray has been getting good karma from people reading his messages, but he has been hit with lots of bad karma from members.

If your karma drops to a certain level, you will not be able to post new messages.

If you are away from ebudo for extended periods of time, your good karma slowly moves back towards 0.

Uses for good karma? Well, I am still working out the details. Here are a few ideas:

500 karma- users are entitled to a free email redirect. Thus, you could use "yourname@e-budo.com."

Only members with at least 25 karma can post in the "for sale" forum.

50 karma- free help in designing and preparing your avatar graphic.

100 karma- members are eligible for monthly drawings for free products, provided by e-budo sponsors (books, videos, etc).

These are just ideas and nothing is official. If you have any other suggestions, please post them here...

Kit LeBlanc
7th March 2002, 23:21
Ok, so I click on my own karma icon and I see a couple names of people that have commented...how do I see what they said?

John Lindsey
7th March 2002, 23:56
If they add a coment, it will appear next to their name. If not, there will be nothing.

Kit LeBlanc
8th March 2002, 00:44
So, if there is no comment, there name appears only because they clicked on the karma icon?

Cady Goldfield
8th March 2002, 01:01
Okay, I just tried to give some karma to someone to see if that function works. Yes, I used Kit since he happened to be sittin' there. :) It didn't work... Kit's karma shows no addition. I clicked on the "agree with" box and then "sent" the karma. But nothing.

I get left with a big, empty white window after apparently sending the karma message.

What's that about?

Kit LeBlanc
8th March 2002, 01:09
Oh, that's just me, I used AIkarmajutsu.

:D

Cady Goldfield
8th March 2002, 01:13
Curses, LeBlanc!:smash:

Cady Goldfield
8th March 2002, 01:16
I did reload. Nada.
Wonder if it has to do with what I've selected and de-selected on the options page (i.e. cookies)?

George Kohler
8th March 2002, 01:41
I just tested it and did not have any problems...

Maybe it is Cady who has Aikikarma :)

Cady Goldfield
8th March 2002, 01:56
I feel so... so... impotent! Unable to wield any karmic powers over the other denizens of the E-Budo universe. Ah, cruel Fate! Alas, unjust Destiny!
:cry:

Kimpatsu
8th March 2002, 02:01
you can actually loose karma if enough people think it is not worthy.
That's it. I'm dead. Now karma is officially a popularity contest, maybe I should save my detractors the trouble and resign from the board now. None of you like me anyway. :cry:

George Kohler
8th March 2002, 02:05
I wouldn't worry too much Tony. Your ok in my book.

Kolschey
8th March 2002, 02:15
[QUOTE]Originally posted by John Lindsey
Here is some more information on our karma system. First of all, consider this a beta test. Some of you are worrying too much about this :).[/Quote}

So far so good. If this is a beta test though, does that mean that the numbers revert when the real system is instituted? In that way, perhaps this is what the Buddhists might call the Bardo- a sort of limbo where we must confront the demons of our own attachments before we commit to the eightfold path?


To give someone good or bad karma, simply click on the karma icon on the far right bottom corner of the message. You will then have the choice of what kind of karma you want to give, and any short message to the poster as well.

Does the amount of Karma that a poster possesses affect the amount of positive or negative Karma that they can give?


If your karma drops to a certain level, you will not be able to post new messages.

Perhaps this is the virtual equivalent of being born into an animal form...
"Ruff!... RuffRuffRuff!"
"What's with that darn dog anyway...It's like he's trying to tell us something..."
"Naw. He's just a dog,Louise...Shaddap already, you $%&^*# dog!" :D

Nicolas Caron
8th March 2002, 06:08
Thanks for the specifications My Lindsey. Clarifies all of my questions and eases all of my concerns.

One thing though, if possible I would change the "agree/disagree" choices in the karma box. I explain, sometimes I can totally disagree with what someone says but still think it is a worthy, well spoken argument worthy of some karma goodness. I know, I know I'm picky and this is just a question of words... but still I feel it would be better to put choices like "good post/bad post".

Dan Harden
8th March 2002, 06:16
Gees Tony... relax
Ya can't get accused of being contentious more than me- and I'm up to 26 and I haven't even said anything yet.
Hey wait.......does that mean what I think it means....uh oh....er um....

How is everyone? Can I get you some coffee.:D


Seriously though-I strongly doubt John will let people go down in flames for intelligent contrasting opinion. That's where we all have our fun-including him


Dan

Kimpatsu
8th March 2002, 06:25
Well, that begs the question then, Dan, of what karma is for? And what of John's threats that bad posters (sic) will be banished to e-budo hell?
And no one's more contentious than I am.
Oh, yes, you are.
Oh, no you're not... :laugh:

Neil Yamamoto
8th March 2002, 06:40
Tony, You are not contentious. You state your opinion and you really don't flame people. Your post generate discussion. That's a good thing.

While I may not always agree with you, your posts are usually pretty well written. That's also a good thing.

As to the karma, well, that's for the people like the famous P***e, the elf krishna- for the old timers, and that ilk.

You got nothing to worry about. Heck, I'm only up to 38. Probably because I don't post as much as I used to post. You got me beat and I contribute nothing but foul humor and sarcasm even at my best. Only thing I'm good for is talking about booze and food.

I look at Karma not as a slam, but as a Florida election. No one can really tell what the numbers mean.

I feel so alone and ignored. :cry: :rolleyes:

Ian McDonald
8th March 2002, 14:35
Hey,

Let's not slam the highly revered election process here in Florida. We all know what the numbers mean. It means that those who control the numbers control the Karma. :smash: Karmic Bob "massaging" data.

And I sure do feel sorry for you, Neil, all alone and ignored. If I were there, we could go out for some drinks, steaks and sarcasm.

Ian McDonald

Jerry Johnson
8th March 2002, 14:57
I tried to add karma to Kent for being a helpful guy and all. But I got an error message saying there is a problem with the data base and to refresh. I did so and I got reincarnated back to the same error message. And I hope that isn't any indication what's going to happen to me with my non-virtual karma. :laugh:

This may be a bug to be expected in the beta v.
:toast:

John Lindsey
8th March 2002, 15:27
LOL, I noticed the same thing about Denise :). I heard that Janty is going to get his 23 children registered here as well...

Nicolas Caron
8th March 2002, 16:03
Originally posted by Jerry Johnson
I tried to add karma to Kent for being a helpful guy and all. But I got an error message saying there is a problem with the data base and to refresh. I did so and I got reincarnated back to the same error message.


I've had the same problem but also found the solution! :)
The comment you tried to add was probably just too long, try rewriting it but shorter this time. Worked for me!

John Lindsey
8th March 2002, 16:07
Thats true! I must get get 10 database error messages from people trying to write too much!

Cady Goldfield
8th March 2002, 16:10
Well, I can't post any karma at all. I've been trying (even saying nice things about people...), but when I click "send," the karma window goes white and stays there until I close it myself. Yes, I reload the page ... My gifts of karma just aren't getting through to anyone.

I'm using Netscape. Think that has anything to do with it?

Signed,
Karmically Disabled

Nicolas Caron
8th March 2002, 16:19
Originally posted by Cady Goldfield


I'm using Netscape. Think that has anything to do with it?

Signed,
Karmically Disabled

I don't know... I'm myself using the Opera browser and havn't got any problems. Havn't tried netscape though...

kenshorin
9th March 2002, 18:59
Oh man, I'm NEVER gonna get karma! I sporadically post at best. But over the past couple years I've managed to build up a decent number of posts. Now I gotta start at 1 on the karma scale! Shoo! :smash:

10th March 2002, 23:59
Originally posted by Jeff Mueller
For instance, Richard Ray has been getting good karma from people reading his messages, but he has been hit with lots of bad karma from members.

Lol... you mean how everypost of his gets a bump up in karma from his ghost account Denise_Ray? :rolleyes:

Amazing how that works... -chuckle-

Anyway, it's a neat system. I think it will go over well in the long run.

My Ghost account?

My wife signed on and is a member is she not alloud? Also she is not alloud to vote is this so? Whatever... Anyway, I seen here name on there and asked not to vote because people would start crap. Last time she voted I think I was at 70, I am now at 240. But whatever...

LOL!

Karma is a joke..

Dan Harden
15th March 2002, 07:59
I for one object to the populartiy status of it- compared to the quality.
When I see myself at Karma 55 and the likes of Karl Friday and Ellis Amdur down to almost nothing it leaves no room for either credibility or logic. Being judged by the masses reduces you to the lowest common denominator. Do I really care if two thousand or so Joey speed Kooratee and Amercian Kenjutsu practioners do not know or even have the ability to judge the value of Karl's Posts?

You can give my points to him

Meik can be a perfect pain in the ass but his words are usually balanced and if you read-he has a fine mind.

Popularity as judged by the majority of people here means exactly what? Many of them do not even know the quality of the pople they are speaking to. Does that sound elitist. Get over it!! Some of these guys are your betters.
All I can say is Yuk!
John DO something!!! Give these guys karma for life or something

Dan Harden

MarkF
15th March 2002, 09:16
I kind of like the good v. evil possibilities with this. A little E-violence is good for.. well, it's good for something,... or bad.

I'm so confused.:cry:


Mark

Would Ellis, Karl, Meik, etc., really vote, or care who votes and why? They pretty much know how most feel, I think. IOW, I'm, in part, agreeing with Dan, just not the automatic karma for life. Everyone loses it now and then, pulls out remaining hair, etc., though not in Ellis' case. That's been done already.

Khahan
15th March 2002, 15:36
Some of the people who seem to be upset with the karma idea seem to think it is a system wide open for abuse.
While I think the idea itself is a good one, I would have to agree, this could easily be abused.
If you are willing to take suggestions, I have a few. For example, make it so if you want to post karma for somebody, good or bad, you MUST put a comment in.
In this way, people who give or take karma like it is candy will have to have some accountability for their actions.
Allow the person who was rated to respond to those comments.
Or, possibly, allow karma to be removed. By this mean, If I post bad karma to somebody then realize there really was no reason for it, allow me to remove that negative.
I am still new here and trying to figure out just who is who. The karma system is a nice tool for that, but is not necessarily going to provide a hard and fast answer for me.
Being able to look a bit deeper at karma, ie: accountability of how it is handed out, would help with that.

yamatodamashii
18th March 2002, 19:54
I always knew that instant karma was gonna get me.

joe yang
18th March 2002, 21:18
Yamatodamashii dude, better get yourself together!:moon:

Cady Goldfield
18th March 2002, 21:26
...and join the human race. Who on earth do you think you are?

:laugh:

yamatodamashii
18th March 2002, 21:43
Oh, but we *all* shine on.

Heh, heh.

Soulend
20th March 2002, 15:25
For example, make it so if you want to post karma for somebody, good or bad, you MUST put a comment in.

I agree..it would at least be good to know why I'm destined for e-budo hell :). Also, it seems under the current system you can see who left you karma but you can't tell whether they agreed or disagreed, especially if they put in no comment to give you any clue. The little box just comes up with their name.

Someone by the name of Prometheus put some kind of karma on one of my posts..but no comment. This dude has been a member since 07-23-2001 and has yet to make a single post...yet he can dole out commentless karma. Ain't that something?

Oh well, guess it doesn't matter much.

Ben23
24th March 2002, 01:55
Hmmm, I dunno. My Karma in the hands of mortals?
How about scripting some sort of advance AI system that determines my overall karma based on a number of variables such as attitude to other posters, aggresive behaviour, underlying intentions of my comments, estimated number of animals killed during my time online, possible increase in dangerous driving due to visual impairment from screen exposure, trivialisation of certain words due to overuse (technique, technique, technique! Im sorry I just cant remember most of the names of the...techniques). Nah, on second thoughts, I dont think most of you guys are going to be nearly as harsh as the fates (oops, theres another faux pas, mixing unrelated religions/philosophies).

Ben Gough-Cooper

John Lindsey
31st March 2002, 21:55
I just updated our karma software to fix a few bugs. There are other inprovements in the works, but since I didn't write this hack, we gotta wait.

I found one reason why karma was jumping a bit too much in both directions. We had a staff infection and I had to use some antibudotics to take care of the bugs (moderators).