You step first, or cut first?

[szczepan]

Hi you all swordsman,

I know it is very basic, but I found 2 contradictory explanations:

Some instructors said me cut and step forward the same time, otherwise opponent will see too much opening in your attack. In this case I'm supposed to finish my cut in the moment my foot touch ground.

Others said nononoooo, to cut efficiently your position must be stable, so first make step and then cut. If you cut the same moment you step, your weight is shifted too much forward and back leg can't give enough power to really cut.

thx for you input.

[hyaku]

Something tells me this could turn out to be a long thread.
There was a similar talk with regard to this on another forum recently.

It really depends on what you practice, but in most styles or ryu ki ken tai ichi is essential. This as you know basically is the co ordination of mind, spirit and body as one.

When we look at kendo to achieve datotsu it is required that the front move settles to co ordinate with the strike/cut. Then again looking at ryu for example Niten Ichiryu we see success in cutting action based on the fact that the back foot must begin to move with the cut. with a resulting double foot movement well inside the maai of the opponent. All ki ken tai ichi, but all variations.

I think most batto people with long experience of cutting targets will tell you that the foot should settle before if you want to generate any hip power.

However when I did seitei here in Japan they insisted that I should cut kendo style.

When we say the foot should settle this is split second work. Its not really a matter of placing the foot and "Duhhh, I am going to cut you!"

All very confusing. I think you have to go with your Sensei or a grading panel if you have one and do what is required for your particular group.

Hyakutake Colin

[James Williams]

Szczepan,

Foot placement, stepping etc. depends upon what circumstances in which you would find yourself. Specific styles of tameshigiri have set formats. For myself I practice many different ways of foot placement when cutting including having one or both feet off of the ground during the cut. This includes a drawing, dropping cutting motion from Yanagi ryu kenjutsu where you end up on one knee with the front straight extended out The purpose of this cut is to be able to avoid an attack by dropping under it and cutting the opponents front leg as you drop. Rolling into and out of cuts is also practiced. While this is not common in modern swords arts I am looking at being able to cut from virtually any position.

In retrospect this is probably not much help, perhaps you should go back to Colin's post.

[Dan Harden]

James, James
I refer you to the Bugei thread- wherein I told you "ya just ain't normal." ;)

There is simply too much to discuss here. Where would you begin.
I would start with the old addage "Did you send a stamp with that telegraphed technique?

Kamae, stances, tactics, response gap, on and on.
For starters what kind of cut are you using? I prefer (what Guy P. coined a truncated cut) a bent arm cut, over the arching, sort of over the top cut. This can cut inside the heart really well and will develope big power in small spaces over time without a lot of fuss or large motion. It doesn't take much to kill someone with a sword-therefore there is not a great need for power swings.
Hip and leg placements? I agree with James.
If you examine people cutting, some cut with a very directed motion of the hips turned toward the cut. With others you can not see the hips move so much(even in James's ryu you will see a difference). I prefer a motion that employes the weight of the body in conjuntion with the cutting motion of the hands/hips. This motion can be done without hips moving in such a dedicated fashion or also with the legs moving small or big or with the legs and center dropping very committedly.
Power in cutting can be very much an internal mechanic- a sort of compression cut using the diaphram for a driving force which has NOTHING to do with the legs or hips (no not wacko, aikido weapons- I mean the real world.)
I would encourage you to cut "all" ways- particularly outside of your given arts sanctions.
Cutting is like shooting-after 12,000 rounds or so under a good teacher you can step back and look at the big picture and sort of go........Yawn!

Cheers
Dan

[szczepan]

Thank you all for very interesting explanations.

Would you like post a link to this Bugei thread?

thx