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J. A. Crippen
7th April 2002, 03:28
I have a set of relatively inexpensive Japanese knives. I'd like to keep them as sharp as I can, since it makes cooking much easier. Does anyone have suggestions on sharpening them? In particular, some are only ground on one side, not both like western knives. Would your typical American knife sharpening service know how to deal with them?

Shitoryu Dude
7th April 2002, 04:49
By relatively inexpensive, just what quality/type of steel are we talking? Carbon steel? Tempered? Case hardened? What is the rockwell hardness?

I've used gobs of different kitchen knives and believe me, spending some cash for good ones makes all the difference. I'm currently using some Wusthoff knives that are a dream to use - very sharp and easy to keep that way.

Most butcher shops I've been to won't have a problem with one-sided grinds, but make sure it's not a kid who barely knows how to run the sharpener. The people who sell cheap swords in the mall may or may not know what the hell they are doing, the professional knife sharpening service shouldn't bat an eye at them.

:beer:

J. A. Crippen
7th April 2002, 09:38
Don't I wish I knew what type of steel and what hardness they are... I suppose I could look up the manufacturer, but that would necessitate knowing how the hell to read the kanji...

They're not a particularly hard steel, since I can give them a quick and dirty sharpening with a 1000 grit stone in a matter of a few swipes. But I'd really like to get some good advice on *keeping* them sharpened, and how to store them, etc.

They're not terribly fancy, each knife was only 20 bucks or so, which for an import isn't very expensive at all. If I had real income I'd spend it on spoiling myself with a set of knives made by a swordsmith, of which I've seen a few for sale online. Now *those* would be a good set of knives... The kind that need clove oil and uchiko powder to keep them in good shape. ^_^

P Goldsbury
7th April 2002, 12:20
Mr Crippen,

Here is a quote from "A Dictionary of Japanese Food", by Richard Hosking (published by Tuttle):

Houchou •ï’š: Apart from the fact that they cut, these knives are in a different world from anything known in western culture. Like swords, they are forged and are sharpened on one side of the blade only, allowing extremeky clean, accurate slicing. They must be sharpened on several different whetstones, a knife steel being totally unsuitable. The three main types are: sashimi bouchou, deba bouchou, for dealing with fish, apart from sashimi; and usuba bouchou, for fine work with vegetables. A good cutler might sell over fifty different kinds of knives made from traditionally forged steel. (p.54)

There is a similar paragraph on p. 51 of his other book, "At the Japanese Table" (Oxford 2000), with the addition:

"For sharpening such blades, at least two grades of whetstone must be used with water, never oil."

Richard is an old friend of mine and used to live in Hiroshima. We have one or two traditional knife shops here, but he used to take or send his kitchen knives to a particular craftsman in Kyoto for sharpening He now lives in London and presumably has the same problem as you have. You do not indicate what quality of knives you have, but he seems pretty clear about three things: whetstones, water, and no oil, not even clove oil.

Best regards,
______________
P A Goldsbury,
Graduate School of Social Sciences,
Hiroshima University

J. A. Crippen
7th April 2002, 23:01
Your explanation is exactly the reason why I have houchou rather than western knives. I have a set of okay western knives but they don't cut as finely or sharply as houchou.

I have a 1000 grit Japanese whetstone (King brand). Unfortunately I learned the hard way about not using oil. Now I have a whetstone that I can only use on one side. I tried removing the oil with soap and water but had no luck; the oil has seeped into the surface about a millimeter or so. One way to remove this oil would be to grind the surface of the stone off with a table grinder, but I'd really rather use some horrible chemicals to get it clean before I go destroying the stone. And for US$30 I'm not going to just go buy another one.

I have a bunkabouchou, nakkiribouchou, and sashimibouchou. The nakkiribouchou is the square tipped knive used for chopping vegetables, and the bunkabouchou is similar to the nakkiribouchou except that it has a sharp point on the end, useful for general purpose chores like separating joints and chopping thick meat.

As I said I can't even read the kanji of the manufacturer, let alone figure out what the quality of the steel is. But they're probably nothing special. I bought them more for their blade shape and grind (which aren't duplicated by western knives) rather than high quality.

So what I'm hearing is that I could take it to a professional knife sharpener but that I should hang over their shoulder to mind what they do and warn them not to use oil? I certainly could sharpen them myself but I've never been very good at sharpening by hand and always end up doing more harm to the blade than good unless I'm just touching up an edge.

How about storage? Should they be washed with hot or cold water? Obviously kept dry, but should they be kept in a knife block or hung on the wall, or kept in a leather wrap?

I'll look into purchasing that "Dictionary". It sounds like quite a reference from that quote you gave.

Shitoryu Dude
10th April 2002, 04:56
You might want to cozy up to a sushi chef and promise to buy a lot of toro in exchange for a sharpening lesson. :)

:beer:

J. A. Crippen
10th April 2002, 07:47
Coincidentally I had just thought the same to myself not but a few hours before I read your post. I think I'll look into doing exactly that... ^_^