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Lil Dave
1st August 2000, 21:02
I would like to learn more about the kuda yari (tube spear) as it seems like a very effective and powerful weapon. I have read Hunter Armstrong's article on Owari Kan Ryu.

http://koryu.com/library/harmstrong1.html

If somebody knows more about Owari Kan Ryu or the kuda-yari I would love to hear about it. The advantages that I see in the 11'10" spear is added weight, range, and increased speed by sliding it through the metal kuda. Seems like it would hit with more force that way, although harder to carry and wield for any length of time. Sounds effective against a single opponent, or on the battlefield, but how does this weapon fare against multiple opponents in a non-battlefield setting?

Where could I get a practice kuda yari? How is it set up exactly? I'm hoping that some crazy budoka/bujutsuka out there will be able to help me a bit.

Neil Hawkins
1st August 2000, 23:13
I have an article at home linking the kuda-yari to our school (Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu). I'll try and dig it up tonight and post the details tomorrow. To the best of my knowledge we don't teach it's use any more however, and I have never seen one used.

Regards
Neil

Neil Hawkins
3rd August 2000, 00:04
I found the article but it didn't have as much information as I remembered, I'll hunt again in case there's another one, but here it is anyway:

In Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu Jujutsu, in addition to the Tanbo, a weapon called the Feruzue was used.

http://www.rsm.com.au/images/feruzue.jpg

The Feruzue, a deceptive brandishing device, is said to be invented by a priest named Hozoin In-ei (1521 - 1607). He lived in Nara in the Yamato Province and was the founder of the Hozoin Ryu style of Kenjutsu.

One type used by the Samurai of the Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu was a 1.80 metre rod on the end of which was a chain with a metal weight. The weight was held in the warrior's hand, and he did not let it go until the two weapons crossed. The chain unfurled by the force of the projection and the metal weight encircled the lance, spear, horses hooves or around the body of the horseman. With a very neat throw the Feruzue expert could catch the weapon out of a man's hand or unsaddle a horseman.

Another type consisted of a stick about one metre long with a chain and an iron ball attached to it. When the shaft, which was hollow and contained the chain and ball, was brandished the ball flew out to strike the enemy with sufficient force to kill.

A weapon such of this was employed in a fencing match against the well known Miyamoto Musashi in the late sixteenth century.

http://www.rsm.com.au/images/kudayari.jpg

Another interesting weapon invented by Hozoin In-ei was a deceptive device called the Kuda-Yari which was a spear pipe. It was a short iron tube which had a wide flare at one end to protect the hand. The Kuda-Yari was placed over the Yari (Spear) and grasped with the left hand to guide and steady the spear when thrusting. A thrust made through a Kuda-Yari is faster than one delivered with the shaft passing through the hand. It was deceptive because the spear gave the appearance of being shorter than it actually was.



Neil

Meik Skoss
3rd August 2000, 03:19
I just read the post by N. Hawkins, wherein he provides an excellent picture of what he calls a "feruzue" (sic). That is most likely a mistake in spelling the term "furuzue" (a Japanese term that means a stick [that is] shaken or swung) and is more commonly known as a chigiriki. Nowadays, there are only two schools, that seem to use this weapon in their training: Araki-ryu and Kiraku-ryu. I'm sure other systems had it in their curricula at one time, but it seems to have pretty much died out.

Kuda yari is practiced today by Owari Kan-ryu, which comes from an older system called Ito-ryu. Again, it's probable that a number of ryu used it at one time, but they are the only folks who seem to do it now. A pity, since a kuda yari is extremely effective -- much faster than normal sojutsu, with very deceptive use of distancing. Kan-ryu's an amazing system and has to be seen to be believed. The only person outside of Japan who is competent/authorized to teach it is Chip Armstrong.

ghp
3rd August 2000, 20:04
Lil Dave,

What's your name? I just e-mailed you a photo of a sojutsu dojo using the kudayari -- I really would have preferred using your name.

You can't really see the kudayari cuz all the students are aiming toward the camera; but, you can somewhat get an idea.

I think the book I scanned had a better view ... Interested? Just sign your full name and I'll be happy to help further.

Regards,
Guy

Lil Dave
4th August 2000, 06:46
Sorry, I am very sloppy when it comes to posting with my name at the end. I would LOVE any help you or any others are willing and able to give to me. I currently plan on visiting Japan. With that trip under my belt, I will be able to determine if I am willing to live there in order to study (hopefully) Owari Kan Ryu sojutsu.

David Allen Buck

Meik Skoss
4th August 2000, 14:21
D. Buck wrote in a recent post:
"... I currently plan on visiting Japan. With that trip under my belt, I will be able to determine if I am willing to live there in order to study (hopefully) Owari Kan Ryu sojutsu."

Mr. Buck, there may be a slight problem for you. If you do not have an introduction to the instructor and dojo, you're not even going to get in the door and, without knowledge of both the language and culture, you'll also have difficulty in training in any of the koryu. From what you've written, it almost sounds like you just plan to go knock on the door and ask to observe practice. Unless you're *really* good at Nihongo, that's not gonna happen and you might as well save yourself the trouble and expense of the trip.

Being a "very big fan" of something-jutsu does not mean a lot to teachers in Japan for the most part and you may want to have a clearer idea of what you're getting into before you go there. On the other hand, the idea of "scouting" the place is a great idea, one that's likely to help you a lot. I wish you the best of luck in your training.

Earl Hartman
4th August 2000, 17:37
So, Guy, you're going to e-mail the photo to Li'l Dave but you're not going to let any of the rest of us see the kuda-yari in action? What's up with that?

Earl

ghp
4th August 2000, 18:16
Sorry, Earl .. no slight. I'll send the scan to JohnL and ask him to post it. I told Dave by private e-mail that I'll try to find some other photos. I seem to recall "Kendo Nippon" doing a series on sojutsu -- but I don't know if they were using kudayari.

Regards,
Guy

Lil Dave
5th August 2000, 07:29
Mr. Skoss,

I made it sound very simple, but that is not the whole plan. I have read into things a bit, and I am investigating whether or not I want koryu (and thus whether I should expect to go to Japan :-) ). My (still simplified) plan actually is to scout the country and culture in practice. This I can do fairly easily, when compared to obtaining the necessary skill with their culture and language, plus getting an introduction through a connection to be admitted to the school. I'm hoping, in fact that through a particular program I will live in various parts of Japan for two years or so. I do thank you for your willingness to correct something that sounded so simplistic.

Also, is it pronounced meek, or mike? I have trouble reading things if I can't attach a mental pronunciation to the word/name. Thank you.

David Buck

sven beulke
5th April 2006, 12:05
Hi All!
Are there other Ryu than Owari-Kan-Ryu that use the Kuda-Yari? Anyone has closeup Pictures of such a weapon especially the kuda?
Thanks and kind regards!

Hughes
5th April 2006, 17:29
here is a link which popped up on a shameful thread about "kuda" on Kendo World forum...

http://www.page-five.de/TENSHU/sojutsu.htm

There is a closeup pic of the kuda.

sven beulke
5th April 2006, 18:51
Hello!
Thanks for this link! I know Ulf Lehmanns website(the best koryu-website in german language!) but it has been a long time since i visited it. Coul you post a link to the"shamefull" thread on kendo world? You makes me courious :rolleyes: !
Kind Regards

Nathan Scott
7th April 2006, 06:42
Mr. Beulke,

I merged your kuda-yari thread with an existing one about Owari kan-ryu and kuda-yari. OKR seems to be the only sojutsu style extant that uses the kuda-yari, so unless the sliding sleeve is becoming a hot topic for some reason, I figure we may as well keep it in this thread.

There are photos around of the yari/sleeve. If nobody finds one on the internet, I'll scan one in at some point and post it.

Regards,

Hughes
7th April 2006, 15:55
Hello!
Thanks for this link! I know Ulf Lehmanns website(the best koryu-website in german language!) but it has been a long time since i visited it. Coul you post a link to the"shamefull" thread on kendo world? You makes me courious :rolleyes: !
Kind Regards

Hi,

here (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9571) it is ;)

regards

ScottUK
10th April 2006, 00:11
Another type consisted of a stick about one metre long with a chain and an iron ball attached to it. When the shaft, which was hollow and contained the chain and ball, was brandished the ball flew out to strike the enemy with sufficient force to kill.

A weapon such of this was employed in a fencing match against the well known Miyamoto Musashi in the late sixteenth century.Hi Neil,

Any idea who was wielding this weapon?

Thanks...

sven beulke
10th April 2006, 11:46
Nice one!
Thanks and Greetings! :p