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dan_norris
22nd April 2002, 21:19
Gassho,

Hello. I've really been enjoying my study of Shorinji Kempo. I was wondering at what level are kenshi instructed on the use of the Shakujo, Dokko, and Nyoi? I think that it would be really fun to learn how to use them.

johan_frendin
23rd April 2002, 05:38
Gassho

I've practiced Shorinji since 1984 and never been taught these kind of techniques. At the moment the are not in any curriculum but something is going on at Hombu. I think that Kawashima sensei working on a curriculum for the shakujo and nyoi.
If this is true I think this is the best thing that happened in many years in shorinji Kempo.

Johan Frendin

dan_norris
23rd April 2002, 19:01
Thanks for your reply Johan Frendin. I became interested about this during a demonstration that my dojo did during the Japanese cherry blossom festival here in Seattle. One of my fellow Kenshi demonstrated the use of the Shakujo and I was very impressed. Although I know that the Shakujo, Dokko, and Nyoi all are in the roots of Shorinji Kempo, I've never seen them practiced in the dojo. I think my friend must have learned the techniques at the headquarters in Shikoku. I also agree that it would be alot of fun to learn these but I guess I've got to train more and travel to Hombu in order to get training. Thanks again for your reply Johan! I enjoy being able to communicate with other kenshi from different schools.:)

Steve Williams
24th April 2002, 22:02
To the best of my knowledge there is no formal instruction in them at any grade.


As Johan said, I have also been informed that a curriculum is being written by Kawashima sensei, we all look forward to that.


Most of the high grade sensei do know "some" shakujo and nyoi technique/ forms, but will only show you if you ask them (and be prepared to ask them on many many occasions).




BTW Myself and Paul Browne did perform a Nyoi, Shakujo embu at a martial aid here in the UK, a long time ago, Tony may remember......

dan_norris
25th April 2002, 18:50
Gassho
Thank you for your post Steve. I'm starting to get a better understanding of this part of Shorinji Kempo. Where you taught the techniques that you learned in Japan or at your dojo in the U.K.? Also, I just wanted to say that this is a real pleasure to be able to talk with other Shorinji Kempo members through this site. I appreciate everyone's posts.

John McCollum
25th April 2002, 23:05
Hi all,

There seems to be people here who have some experience in using shakujo and nyoi, but what about dokko? Anyone ever used one?

Anyone ever seen one being used?:confused:

Onno
26th April 2002, 06:45
Gassho __||__

Hello All

I have just started to train using the Shakujo here in Calgary. You need to be lucky enough to have a Sensei that knows Shakujo in order to learn it. I guess I am lucky. ;) My sensei does not teach many people, only those that ask and are keenly interested does he consider it. Usually about 2nd or 3rd dan is about the average for beginning the Shakujo. I have seen one or two people also using the niyo.

I'll be in Hombu this fall, so I hope to pick up some more tips while I'm there.

Kesshu

Onno Kok
Alberta Shibu
Calgary, Canada

slait
26th April 2002, 12:31
Hi!

I have neither ever seen dokko in use, but as it seems quite similar like kubotan and yawara-stick, there may be common ways to apply it.

You can find some information about these sticks with the following links:
http://www.yawara.com/Yawast1.html
http://www.saunders999.fsnet.co.uk/kubotan/pages/index.htm

It would be nice to know how to use dokko "officially" in Shorinji Kempo.

Santeri Laitinen
Jyväskylä branch, Finland

Robert Liljeblad
25th February 2003, 09:39
Gassho all,

Do you know if other arts are using the Shakujo and Nyoi ? Where did Kaiso pick up these techniques?

Best Regards,

tony leith
25th February 2003, 11:13
Firstly, I'm in the have no clue but would dearly like to learn camp re. the weapons techniques. I once came across an article in a martial arts encyclopedia which argued against Kempo have true Chinese antecedents on the grounds that it doesn't incorporate weapons techniques in the syllabus, and therefore presumably Doshin So didn't know any (patently untrue). Mizuno Sensei once read us an article by Oueda Sensei in which he statred that Kaiso taught him the shakujo techniques because his disability (he lost one arm to an unexploded munition) and the possibility that he might need them for self defence. The inference from this is that not even Kaiso's first generation of students were routinely taught these techniques.

This article did have good quality photographs of Oueda Sensei and Kawashima Sensei performing shakujo defences, and in Glasgow weincorporated a shakujo (albeit they were just big sticks) pair form kata based on tenchiken dai nikkei into an outdoor demo a couple of years ago, which was fun to do and a crowd pleaser. There is of course no substitute for instruction, and even though there are people in our club who have extensive experience of using different sorts of weapons it'd be good to be taught the authentic Shorinji kempo forms by somebody who knows what they're doing. Unfortunately the people who do seem to be reluctant to teach them, doubtless for good reasons..

Tony leith

jonboy
25th February 2003, 13:19
Hi all,

I'd just like to ask - what are Dokko and Nyoi?

Also do any of the british kenshi remeber the Hyde Park demo in 2001? One of the Honbu demonstration team performed a single form kata/enbu type thing in which he had his hand in a non traditional fist (actually it was nothing like a fist as I seem to remember him pointing at least one fingure out straight). I was told by a senior instructor that this was because he was doing some kind of form that involved a weapon, but just didn't actually have the weapon in hand.

I feel I didn't explain that very well, but any ideas?

jon

tony leith
25th February 2003, 14:22
If I remember there are pictures of all three weapons in the Fukodukohon. The nyoi is a short staff, from the look of it on videos/photos maybe about forearm length,the dokko a shorter stck which protrudes slightly either side of a closed fist - I believe ostensibly an implement used by monks in reading texts (this sounds about as plausible as the claim that the shakujo is purely and simply a walking stick - it's two metres long with studded metal rings on the end, and in the very impressive massed ranks of branch masters performing shakujo embu sequence on the 40th anniversary video, is handled very much like a spear).

I don't know that much about Japanese weapons forms, but can imagine a number of kempo techniques which might incorporate the dokko (han tenshin geri, yoko tenshin geri, harai uke dan zuki). There are even some kempo techniques that might have been derived from weapons defences - one Glasgow kenshi suggested this as a possible explanation for soto uke dan zuki, which suddenly becomes a lot more explicable if you imagine that you're holding a side handled baton.

Tony leith

jonboy
25th February 2003, 15:00
Cheers Tony,

I'll take a look in my Fukudokuhon later.

hsuntzu
27th February 2003, 03:32
Jon, what you saw may have been the "dokko-ken," a simple single form involving the use of the dokko. I'm guessing this because, during the Paris Takai, in the Hombu Demonstration team part, the "dokko-ken" form was shown.

Gassho,

jonboy
27th February 2003, 10:46
I think that has to be right, because it was the same demo team (they did that event in Hyde park just before Paris). Having looked in the fukudokuhon at the dokko it all seems to fit in.

Thanks for the answers.

dan_norris
7th March 2003, 18:40
Gassho

I heard that there was a video of Shorinji Kempo about the shakujo. I don't know if it showed techniques or embu or even if it had info. on the dokko or nyoi. I just heard that there was one. If it exists, I'd sure like to see it. :)

Kimpatsu
7th March 2003, 21:22
Gassho, Dan-san.
There is a video in Japanese, NTSC format only (i.e., fine for Japan and USA, not for Europe), which is modelled on the BSKF video from 1996, and which contains shakujo techniques as part of the demonstration. I have a copy. Would you like more info? (I apologise for being so terse, but I'm actually in an internet cafe in Honolulu at the moment, and my time is limited.)
Kesshu.

dan_norris
7th March 2003, 23:13
Gassho

Hello Tony-san. Actually, you were who I had first heard of the video from in another thread. Thanks for the reply. I'd definatly like some more info. I've got a copy of one BSKF video. It has Mizuno sensei and Aosaka sensei in it. The movie is in Japanese (was originally in English, I think) and it contains some hokei, embu, kihon, info. on the principles and a some randori. I wonder if that is the video you mentioned that the shakujo video is modeled from? Is it the same shakujo video that you talked about before that could be purchased at some sports shops in Japan? I'd like to know who is in the video, how long it is, and what kind of techniques they demonstrate. Onegaishimasu.

Kesshu

Kimpatsu
8th March 2003, 03:45
Gassho, Dan.
The video to which you refer was a British Federation production that was originally narrated in English, but was transferred over to NTSC for Japanese (and US) compatibility before being dubbed into Japanese. If you have a universal video player, which can accept European PAL videos, you can buy a copy of the English version from the BSKF. (www.bskf.org)
The new Hombu video, which also stars both Mizuno and Aosaka Sensei, is modelled on this; it follows much the same format, explaining kihon, chinkon, etc., and why Shorinji Kempo is not just another martial art, but it also includes a section on weapons, which was filmed on the Hombu lawn. Contact Hombu (http://wasco.econ-net.or.jp/wsko/) for details.
Kesshu.

dan_norris
8th March 2003, 07:30
Gassho

Actually, now that I think about it, I might have that video. Is it the video, "Shorinji Kempo, its techniques and philosophy"? It does have Ueda sensei and Kawashima sensei doing embu with the shakujo. Is that the same one you were thinking about Tony-san?

Kimpatsu
8th March 2003, 12:27
Gassho.
I don't know the English title for this video, but it includes Aosaka Sensei in the main dojo at hombu knocking a helmeted man on his a$s with a really gorgeous jodan mawashi geri.
Sound familiar?
Kesshu.

dan_norris
9th March 2003, 18:27
Gassho

Ha ha. Yeah, thats the one. A friend of mine in Japan mailed it to me last year. Its a pretty sweet video. Its in Japanese and I believe the title is "Sono Gihou to Oshie". Awww, I was kinda hoping that the video you were refering to was a new one released showing more of the shakujo. Or even some of the Dokko or Nyoi. :D

Kesshu

Robert Liljeblad
11th March 2003, 13:16
Hi,

I found this link, with shakujo:

http://www.ninpo.org/ninpotechniques/ninpotech5.htm

Regards,

Anders Pettersson
12th March 2003, 22:32
Originally posted by dan_norris
I heard that there was a video of Shorinji Kempo about the shakujo. I don't know if it showed techniques or embu or even if it had info. on the dokko or nyoi. I just heard that there was one. If it exists, I'd sure like to see it. :)

Gassho.

As far as I know there is no video about shakujo (or any other of the Hoki used in Shorinjikempo either), the only recent are the video that you have mentioned ?gShorinjikempo sono giho to oshie?h but that only features something like one minute of Ueda-sensei and Kawashima-sensei.

I was recently in Hombu and had a training session with Kawashima-sensei, just him and me :cool: :), where we went through shakujo techniques.
They are now working on a project (or whatever they call it) to document the Shakujo techniques and also the other Hoki as I understood.
What I have understood from talking to Hombu staff they have no intention on developing the techniques with Hoki, but they do realize the need to pass on the techniques taught by Kaiso.

Kawashima-sensei had some papers on a sort of "kamoku" on Shakujo, however this material is far from finished and will probably not be finished in the next two years.
Anyway they seem to have a basic idea of dividing the shakujo techniques in to three levels, shokyu, chukyu and jokyu. (?‰‹‰?A’†‹‰?A?㋉). If there will be any test or examinations of these levels are not decided.

I hope this give some answers.

/Anders

Steve Williams
13th March 2003, 00:23
The video of which Tohy speaks is very good....

But it only shows a very small amount of Shakujo :(
What it does show is excellent though :)




And also this is the moment you speak of:

Kimpatsu
13th March 2003, 01:32
Gassho.
Yes, that scene of Aosaka Sensei knocking his luckless assistant on his a$s is surely one of the greatest moments in that video. The timing is superb. It brought to mind a randori demonstration for Martial Aid in London many years ago between Mizuno Sensei and Paul White Sensei. Russell Jenkins Sensei, who was commentating, remarked that the helmet Paul was wearing had been designed in conjunction with NASA, so that when Paul got kicked into orbit, he wouldn't feel a thing... ;)
I don't wear dark glasses to look cool. I wear them to conceal the randori bruises. :cool:
Kesshu.