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tonpo
2nd May 2002, 17:26
hi guys..just wanted to ask all u knowledgable people out there for some help. heres some background first.

im a 22 year old mail...i used to be really active as a teenager, played football..lifted weights etc. but after i stopped playing football, i also stopped working out, so as u all know this meant very slowly gaining weight over the 5 years i havent been playing football (used to be 180 and rock solid). im 5'10" and currently 230 (for some reason my body never goes heavier than 230). The past year i have been totally devoted to the ma study of iaido, but as some of u out there knows, as demanding as iaido is sometimes...its not really used to lose weight or get into shape, so my body's not really changing..other than my shoulders and upper pecs getting somewhat more in shape, and my thighs getting ROCK hard haha....i still have a small gut, and love handles.

with the pursuit of iaido, and getting back into physical activities...the want to be fit and in shape have come back.

so i guess what i need help with, from all u out there is this: do any of of u have a link to a diet plan (w/out having to pay) that has worked for u? that helped u lose weight and get into shape at the same time coupled w/ excercise of course. or any of u have a specific diet u follow on a day to day basis, that u wouldnt mind typing out here. only diets that are healthy in the long run please...no atkins or hollywood overnite diets or whatever.
and if any of u can help me w/ sharing ur excercise regimen as well (for building muscle) w/out the need of a bench haha..( live in an apartment, and too poor to afford a gym membership)..i.e. pushups situps, decline pushups..etc.

and one last thing, if there are any multivitamins out there that basically have everything ur body needs id appreciate a push in that direction as well...dont wanna have to buy and take 10 different bottles everyday haha.

thanks so much for any help u all may offer!

clarence

Dahlia
2nd May 2002, 21:15
Stop eating sweets. Ignore McDonald's. Eat a fish instead of a steak. Don't eat after 20h. Eat more vegetables.
I don't really have weight problems but this is what works for me (except the fish, I'm vegetarian) each summer, when I change my food style automatically and lose what I got over Christmas time :D
I don't believe that you can really lose weight by dieting only, you'll gaign it back as soon as you stop and noone has the strength to go on forever. Eating less and doing more training should be much more effective. You're doing iaido right now. Why don't you start kendo, too? It's very healthy, very sporty and very exhausting at times :D Or you could just do some running, this will help, too.

The best diet plan was the one my grandma used to tell anybody who asked: "Eat your breakfast yourself, share your dinner with your best friend and leave your supper to your enemy..." :toast:

meat
3rd May 2002, 02:09
Well Clarence, the main thing to lose weight is exercise, exercise and exercise. If you're exercising enough it really doesn't matter what you eat, although once you start working out alot you tend to eat what your body needs rather than eating bad food.
First of all, I don't know how fit you are, so I'll start with something really basic, and you can work your way up.
Push ups- start with sets of 20, and work up to whatever you like.
20 - hands shoulder width apart
20 - hands in a triangle underneath your chest
20 on the wrists(if they are strong enough)
20 on the knuckles
20 on the knuckles, hands turned backwards at the hips(works the biceps)
20 - hands shoulder width, clap on each one
That should be good to start out with, when u get better add one handed push ups, another good one is too hook your feet on a couch or something high so ur upper pecs get a workout. Push the sets up by 10 every time it gets easy.

Sit ups
If your stomach is really weak, start with sets of 20 and work up to however many you have time for. These should be done hard and fast.
20 - Legs bent hands to knees
20 - Legs raised and crossed, touch the ankles
20 - Legs raised and crossed, hands behind head, opposite elbow to opposite knee
20 - Legs crossed and straight up in the air, touch your toes
20 - Same as first set, with ankles crossed
20 - Opposite elbow to opposite knee cycling

If you have a chin up bar, start with sets of 5 with the hands in diff positions to work diff muscles. Do this program every 2nd day to start with, and try to build it up to 5 or so days a week. Since I'm not a vegetarian, i'd advise to eat plenty of protein(ie meat) about an hour after you workout. If you go hard you'll start to notice the difference within 6 weeks or so(or if your an athletic body type halve that).
As for cardio, theres a number of thing you can do. If you're really unfit, start with a 30-60 minute walk every day. You can build up to a run, or doing sprints will jack your fitness up like you wouldn't believe, but u have 2 be fairly fit to do them. Start with 5 sets of one minute sprints up and back a 10 metre space(also improves agility). Swimming is also great, as is roller blading or ice skating(if you have the skill to go fast).
Hope that helps

fifthchamber
3rd May 2002, 16:59
Hi all,
Basically what is needed is an analysis of exactly what foods you don't 'need' in your life...This means looking into the nutritional values of the foods you ingest.
The basic measures that work for me are; Carbohydrates (Complex) 50%, (Simple/Sugars etc) 20%, Proteins 20%, and fats 10%...But each person will respond individually to what they eat.
The best thing to do is to cut out the 'pointless' foods..High sugar foods/sweets/pastries/sugar drinks etc. and replace them with long lasting complex carb foods like brown breads/bagels/rice/pastas/vegetables etc...It also helps to raise the levels of fibre in your food as it makes you feel less hungry through the day..Reduce fats in everything. Cheese, meats, and sweets often contain useless amounts of fat that serve no purpose to you and should be reduced or eliminated from your food if you want to lose weight.
Check what you eat...An average man needs 2,500 calories per day...So aim at slightly less and use the above ratios to lose weight.
The main point in dieting is to eat less than you use in daily exercise..This means if you are training hard then it is ok to eat more during that day but if you are doing nothing it makes no sense to eat and eat as the energy is not being used up by your body.
The above guidelines should help you...This coupled with regular and increasing exercise will mean that you lose weight...But you need to be honest about the 'useless' foods you eat daily basically..You gain nothing from a chocolate bar or fries and the calories are easily stored by your body as fat..Unless you burn them off during exercise.
There is no easy way to do it but being honest about where you could cut back is a good first step..Any type of aerobic work is a bonus..running, cycling, even clubbing can burn off a good amount of energy and as long as you are sincere to yourself you should lose whatever you want to..
HTH.
Abayo

txhapkido
7th May 2002, 06:52
Get a copy of Dr. Dean Ornish's book "Eat More, Weigh Less" and you'll be on the right track. It's a cheap paperback and the plan is safe, unlike the Atkin's artery clogging diet!

lgusaas
8th May 2002, 02:28
Originally posted by txhapkido
Get a copy of Dr. Dean Ornish's book "Eat More, Weigh Less" and you'll be on the right track. It's a cheap paperback and the plan is safe, unlike the Atkin's artery clogging diet!

Atkins diet is SAFE!!! It has been proven to improve health. If you read his books and the research that backs him up you will understand that this is an excellent way to promote and obtain optimum health

Larry Gusaas

txhapkido
8th May 2002, 03:14
Did you know that Dr. Atkins is dying of heart disease; it was in the news last week. You might ask the MD's on this board what happens with an extreme (in Asian Medicine moderation in all things is preached) diet such as the Atkins diet. As a registered nurse with 30 years in healthcare and involvement in research, I can only say, "you really believe all research?" Remember all the drugs that have been pulled off the market after extensive research only to find that they killed people? I've got many more examples that will chill your blood but do as you wish. I lost weight on the Atkins diet and felt miserable; I feel great on Dr. Ornish's diet. Of course, being a Texan, I will eat some meat (and Blue Bell ice cream), in fact I think there is a little left in the frig...excuse me!

Kimpatsu
8th May 2002, 05:17
Originally posted by tonpo
im a 22 year old mail...
Is this a post to which you aspired all your life, or are you just pushing the envelope? I suppose, to be frank, you're stamping your mark on e-budo... :p

lgusaas
8th May 2002, 09:39
Originally posted by txhapkido
Did you know that Dr. Atkins is dying of heart disease; it was in the news last week.
You really should check the facts before you attribute this story to his diet. Atkins is suffering from cardiomyopathy, which has no connection to diet and this was clearly stated in the National Post article I read.The following is from Atkins newsletter:

Atkins Newsletter - What Is Cardiomyopathy?
May 6 :: Issue 3

Dear Friend, a letter from Dr. Atkins -
http://atkinscenter.com/dev/Archive/2002/4/30-673061.html

"Cardiomyopathy is a condition in which the heartís ability to pump bloodis weakened because of enlargement, thinning and weakening of the heart
muscle; it is in no way related to diet." - Dr. Atkins

I imagine that many of you have read in newspapers or heard on television or radio that I had a medical emergency a few weeks ago. I did have a brief episode when my heart stopped beating, but it quite certainly was not a heart attack. This medical term applies to chest pain or heart irregularities caused by blockage of the coronary arteries that supply blood to the heart.

Instead, my problem was caused by an infection of the heart. In fact, two years ago, I was diagnosed with a condition known as cardiomyopathy, the causes of which are generally unknown. However, in my case we know that
the cardiomyopathy was caused by a chronic bacterial infection picked up during an overseas trip some years ago. Cardiomyopathy is a condition in which the heartís ability to pump blood is weakened because of enlargement, thinning and weakening of the heart muscle; it is in no way related to diet.

To borrow a quote from Clyde Yancy, M.D., University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, and a member of the American Heart Association National Board of Directors, on CNN, "Despite the obvious irony, I believe that there is a total disconnect between the cardiac arrest and the health approach he [Atkins] popularizes."
More > http://atkinscenter.com/dev/Archive/2002/4/30-673061.html


You are right .I don.t believe all the research I read. I do , however at least study it before outrightly dismissing it

I lost weight on the Atkins diet and felt miserable; I feel great on Dr. Ornish's diet. Of course, being a Texan, I will eat some meat (and Blue Bell ice cream), in fact I think there is a little left in the frig...excuse me!

I'm glad you feel great. I feel great on Atkins diet and my overall health has greatly improved.

Larry Gusaas

txhapkido
8th May 2002, 16:07
Go back and read my post and you'll see where I did not connect his diet with his current illness. The connection was in your own mind! I'm not going to waste time preaching one diet over another, you make the choice. Do be informed, however about the types of foods that have been shown through empirical research to clog your pipes. See you in cardiac or physical (stroke) rehab!

lgusaas
8th May 2002, 21:51
Originally posted by txhapkido
Go back and read my post and you'll see where I did not connect his diet with his current illness. The connection was in your own mind!

True, you did not make the connection directly. It was, however obviously implied. Otherwise you would not have stated it as it had no other relevance to the converstation.

I'm not going to waste time preaching one diet over another, you make the choice. Do be informed, however about the types of foods that have been shown through empirical research to clog your pipes.

I am informed ! My previous posts were telling you to become informed about Atkins diet before dissing it. His diet along with nutritional supplements has been proven to reduce cholestral levels, high blood pressure and numerous other ailments while at the same time enabling his patient to get off many medications and their dangerous side effects.

Ornish's diet is dangerously low in fat content

See you in cardiac or physical (stroke) rehab!

What an ignorant comment! I suggested you look at Atkins books to become better informed before making such foolish statements but you are obviously unwilling to take off your blinders.


Larry Gusaas

txhapkido
9th May 2002, 03:57
Moderator please let this thread go on for a little while longer.

Where are the physicians and nutrition people hiding; jump in here and enjoy things!

1. When you are emotionally attached to an idea or thing, anything, there are problems.

2. I familiar with the Atkins diet as I read his book and even lived near a town where almost everyone got on his diet. I was even on it for a while. I lost weight and my cholesterol went down. This will happen because you are losing the blubber. Your blood pressure and blood suger will also drop in mmany cases. You will be a thin man (person) with clogged arteries leading to cardiac problems and stroke.

3. Look up SOME of the foods on the Atkins diet and just read what kind of health problems they cause. That's all you have to do.

4. Ornish's diet has been shown to REVERSE cardiac problems and because of that many insurance companies are paying for it.

5. I guess by now you realize I have no blinders on as I have no emotional committment to either diet. I had a can of V8 for breakfast but tacos with meat for supper.

6. I the hospital I spend my time between the Emergency Dept. and Physical Medicine and Rehab. so I see some people that wished they had taken better care of themselves. Do you think the MD's put stroke patient's on the type of food in the Atkins diet? Heck,no! They are put on a diet that is best termed a "heart-saver diet."

7. This kinda reminds my of one of my patients with emphysema who was sitting on the side of her bed with oxygen going and gasping for breath (and dying for a smoke) when she volunteered that there was no research which proved that cigarette smoking was harmful. Of course all of us health professionals knew better and the cigarette cover-up has now come to light (no pun intended).

8. Expand your research into not only Western diet but Eastern diet practices. Look at why some Eastern people live longer than we do. Look at why the health of people in countries that now have McDonald's are going down the tubes.

Dang, this is too long. Thanks however for a pleasant diversion in my otherwise very exciting life.

txhapkido
14th May 2002, 03:15
I thought the kind Rev. was getting well over 200 pounds; has he lost any?

TyroneTurner
14th May 2002, 18:55
Good day Tonpo. I've been following the "Blood Type Diet" as taught by Dr. Peter D'Adamo, since November 2001 and I've never felt better. I've dropped 20 lbs., my allergies aren't killing me like they usually do, and I have a lot more energy.

He has a series of books, the first one being EAT RIGHT 4 YOUR TYPE. In a nutshell, the author suggests that one should add or avoid certain foods depending on one's blood type. For instance, I'm type O and I should eat red meat regulary, but I should avoid dairy and wheat.

By the way, I was reading an interview with NHB champ Frank Shamrock, and he mentions that follows this type of diet.

Here is the link for the interview, http://www.realfighting.com/0102/shamint.htm

As has been mentioned by others, diet alone will not get it done so you have to commit to a regular exercise regimen. I've been doing "Scrapper's Workout Routines as posted at this site, http://www.trainforstrength.com/workouts.shtml

I prefer bodyweight exercises because you can do them anywhere. These workouts keep you honest because it takes away any excuses like "I can't make it to the gym" because with the exception of pull-ups and dips, you don't need any equipment.

Hey, I am just a regular guy from Queens but I have noticed significant increases in strength and endurance since doing these workouts. Plus I dropped 20 lbs.

I wish you success.

Tyrone Turner
Queens, NY

Usagi
24th May 2002, 23:08
First i would like to apologize for the fact that i don't know how to express some physiological terms in english.

For a better understand i would like to recommend Berne's Treatise of Medical Physiology(i think that this is the name in english) and Powers & Howley's Exercise Physiology:Theory and Aplication to Fitness and Performance.

Atkins diet isn't related to artery clogging.

People deduce that his diet "might" clog the arteries for its emphasis on fat and protein, but that theory has no back up data.

The REAL PROBLEM with Atkin's diet is blood pressure and dehydration.

In our blood the proteins generate one pressure called oncotic, which (together with the hydrostatic pressure) is responsable for the functioning of the kidneys.

The higher the presence of proteins in the blood, the higher the oncotic pressure and the higher is the filtration of blood in the kidneys(which to dyuresis).

This leads to a constant lost of water (dehydration).

Also, the higher presence of proteins leads to an increase of the blood's thickness and this causes (on the heart) an increase on the demand of myocardic activity(hypertension).

At the kidneys the denser blood causes small ruptures (like trying to flitrate something very thick throught a coffe filter).

Also there is a increase on the production of cetonic bodies, that cause acid ph...

As clicosys is needed for the absortion of water, a diet poor in sugar leads to dehydration.

Althrought Atkin's diet is fantastic for SOME ESPECIFIC CASES, i don't believe it to be very healthy or something to recomend...

But if it works for you who am i to condem :D

Jens
25th May 2002, 03:02
Eat less, better, but more often!

There's an old saying that goes something like "eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, and dinner like a pauper". I think that's right on target, with one important moderation: you should eat more than three times a day. Make it five or even six (small, of course)meals a day. Also, this does NOT mean that you shouldn't eat after 6 in the evening - starving your body is the worst thing you can do, as it offsets your metabolism. Keep those calories coming in a steady stream during the day, a little more in the morning, a little less in the evening. As long as you keep track of your total caloric intake, you'll be fine.

Good Luck!

Jens Nasstrom

lgusaas
25th May 2002, 19:38
Originally posted by txhapkido
1. When you are emotionally attached to an idea or thing, anything, there are problems.

Accusing someone of being emotionlly attached to an idea is a common ploy used to negate their argument withou having to counter the actual facts they present. The only emotional attachment I have is to ACCURATE information and to promoting good health. Perhaps you should look in the mirror.

2. I familiar with the Atkins diet as I read his book ...snip...

You have? Which one? He has writtin several. Perhaps you should look at the following ones and then repond to the research and clinical experience he presents before blindly dismissing them.
-Dr Atkins' New Diet Revolution, rev.ed.
-Dr. Atkins' Vita-nutrient Solution
-Dr. Atkins' Age-Defying Diet Revolution

You will be a thin man (person) with clogged arteries leading to cardiac problems and stroke.

Not true. Your arteries will be clear, lessening cardiac problems

3. Look up SOME of the foods on the Atkins diet and just read what kind of health problems they cause. That's all you have to do.

Read Atkins books and see how his diet and supplements clear up health problems. That's all YOU have to do.

4. Ornish's diet has been shown to REVERSE cardiac problems and because of that many insurance companies are paying for it.

Atkins' diet reverses cardiac problems. READ HIS BOOKS.

5. I guess by now you realize I have no blinders on as I have no emotional committment to either diet..

LOL! If so, why not read his books before dismissing them.

6. I the hospital I spend my time between the Emergency Dept. and Physical Medicine and Rehab. so I see some people that wished they had taken better care of themselves. Do you think the MD's put stroke patient's on the type of food in the Atkins diet? Heck,no! They are put on a diet that is best termed a "heart-saver diet."

Atkins specialty is cardiology. He puts his patients on the diet he has found, through thirty years of experience and research, to be best; a true heart-saver diet.

7. This kinda reminds my of one of my patients with emphysema who was sitting on the side of her bed with oxygen going and gasping for breath (and dying for a smoke) when she volunteered that there was no research which proved that cigarette smoking was harmful. Of course all of us health professionals knew better and the cigarette cover-up has now come to light (no pun intended).

Bringing in a different scenario proves nothing as it has no relevance to the discussion. Besides, at one point in time' doctors would tell their patients to smoke.

8. ..snip.... Look at why the health of people in countries that now have McDonald's are going down the tubes.

Atkins does. The highly refined and proccessed food , especialy carborhydrate, is the problem in the western diet.



Larry Gusaas

txhapkido
26th May 2002, 02:58
Oh, Larry, you've been gone so long! I figured that you must have been doing some research. I see that you are taking this personal now. Don't you realize that I'm not. I'm also a Psychiatric Clinical Nurse Specialist and I'm sorry for playing with your brain cells so much. That ketosis must be getting to you by now!


I'll answer some of your comments, but since I don't give a hoot about what kind of diet anyone is on, this will be the last time I debate this with you since it is an exercise, although a fun one (for a while)in futility.

Posted by Larry after being on the Atkins diet:
Accusing someone of being emotionlly attached to an idea is a common ploy used to negate their argument withou having to counter the actual facts they present. The only emotional attachment I have is to ACCURATE information and to promoting good health. Perhaps you should look in the mirror.

Randy's (I'll eat anything at least once) turn:
Now, now! My emotional health has been tested by mental health professionals as part of my training and it seems that I'm one of the most well adjusted people around. Scary, huh? Have you checked the facts; here's the 1st one (from an MD) that I got off a search engine. (I stopped right there because as I told you before, I'm right here on the healthcare front lines.)Don't cry when you read it! http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/review/325963.html

As for all your other comments...I guess this doctor will answer them! Have you tried the Hawaiian diet; it's really great!

lgusaas
30th May 2002, 07:03
Randall, Randall, Randall ! Why do you keep insinuating that I am taking this personally or that I'm emotionally attached to my opinion ? Is this your feeble attempt to negate the facts that I suggusted you look at or do just enjoy playing mindless little head games?

"Have you checked the facts; here's the 1st one (from an MD) that I got off a search engine. http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/review/325963.html "

You call that facts? Its nothing more than mere opinion.It provides no references, no documentation, no research to back up his opinion. Did you check the 20 other opinions on that website? 8 give Atkins diet 5 stars.4 give it 4 stars. 2 give it 3 stars. 1 give it 2 stars. 6 give it 1 stars. 71% reccomend Atkins diet.

If you had looked at the books I reccomended, you would have realized that the doubts raised about Atkins diet be your esteemed source were fallacies. Since you are unwilling to open a book , here is a website you could look at.
http://atkinscenter.com/why/debunking-the-myths.html

Please note that on the five pages of facts vs. fallacy, Atkins cites 38 references. How many references did your so-called expert cite? If I recall correctly , unless my brain is damaged by ketosis, there were NONE.I ask you as someone in the medical profession, which of these two approaches is the proper way to give an informed opinion?

Larry Gusaas

txhapkido
30th May 2002, 18:57
Since one on my clients cancelled this am, I'll have time for more verbal sparring.

Sorry; I just tend (due to my perverse nature) like to play with people who can't see the entire picture. If that's not you, then I apologise.

I also didn't meen to present the one "opinion" as "fact." It was just funny that it was the first thing that popped up on the search engine. Of course the following organizations have the opinion that they do not advocate eating all the foods on the Atkins diet: American Heart Association, American Dietetic Association, American Cancer Society, American Diabetic Association, most medical schools, etc, etc..

As I've told you before I've read his first book and don't care to read anymore. Most diet books fall into the "pop psychology" category and are a waste of my money. I spend approximately $400 a month on better quality books.

Atkins went to school during a time when nothing was taught about nutrition. It is only recently that medical schools have started teaching nutrition. I probably have more hours of nutrition study (84 hours, half Oriental nutrition)than most MD's. If Atkins had also been on a "healthy" diet his immune system might have been able to fight off the bacteria that invaded his heart.

Did you see where Atkins started his diet as a joke! Reminds me of the Zen Farting master who started his teachings as a joke, but when thousands of students started showing up, turned it into something real, and probably profitable!

Now, let's talk about empirical studies. Remember where I told you I was once (2 years ago) involved in drug research? Let me just say that most are flawed and you can make any research say what you want. So if we throw out all the research, let's look at the populations that have lived the longest and who are the most healthy. That's a good time-tested way to look at something in my opinion. What do they eat? The USA is not the most healthy, we rank 12th out of 13 nations studied as to their health. Japan ranked # 1 as having the most healthy population. Their diet: high carbs with minimal high protein, animal fat protein. The Japanese have about the lowest rates of heart disease, diabetes, and cancer than anyone else.

It is my "opinion" that any diet should address the following: body, mind and spirit. The fact that a certain diet makes you lose weight is not the real issue. You have to change your habits and outlook. There should be no "unatural periods" of deprivations or unhealthy physiologic reactions. The diet shouldn't become boring after a few months. It should not be expensive. You should not lose muscle, and strength. You should not have to take vitamin supplements along with the diet...hello, hello! There should be no bad breath, gout, bad skin, frequent urination, mood changes, jaundice, hair loss, increased health risks, high cholesterol (even after losing weight),calcium loss (there goes the bones), cancer (the link between cancer and animal protein is very solid), kidney problems (some which do not show up on tests until over 50% of the kidney is damaged) etc..

Now, can we discuss religion or something?