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Paul Steadman
7th May 2002, 13:31
Hi All,

In your career/experience etc. what common "street," assaults (grabs, punches, kicks, muggings etc) have you witnessed or had to deal with? I know there is no such thing as garedn variety assaults on the "street," but I'm just trying to pigdeon hole the most common types of attacks that you may have seen or defended against.

Also, in these assaults, did the aggressor stand in a left or right leg forward position, did he/she step/shuffle or lunge in predominantly with the left leg or right leg and was the right or left had used more in punches/strikes/grabs etc?

Thanks in advance for your replies. I am curious and I am interested in what one is taught and drilled in the dojo as compared to what actually happens when someone is intent on doing you harm! Thanks again.

Regards,

Paul Steadman

Joseph Svinth
7th May 2002, 14:49
There are a lot more where these came from (the police beat of the Arcata, California, newspaper), but these seem archetypical:

1. From http://www.arcataeye.com/police/020305police01.shtml

7:32 p.m. Ostensibly, it was about one roommate knocking over a shelf in the other's room. At least that was the trigger. The real deal was money and bills. A bloody nose, and contused head, a bunch of cops and both parties declined prosecution.

2. From http://www.arcataeye.com/police/020430police01.shtml

12:29 p.m. A man was assaulted from behind in what was described as an unprovoked attack at Ninth and H streets. A struggle ensued, falling far short of cinematic depictions of manly conflict, which generally involve heroic posturing, elegant choreography, well-aimed blows and a clear victor and vanquished. In reality, there was a lot of inconclusive grappling, grasping at clothing with heads down, garbled curses and swift encirclement by blue uniforms. A suspect was jailed, no one got the girl and civilization continues to be doomed by powerful evildoers.

Kevin73
7th May 2002, 15:44
I have worked 5 yrs in a jail that houses around 600 inmates, so I have seen alot of fights and read about alot of them that happened in our facility as well.

I would say the number 1 attack that I have seen is the person steps in with the left foot and then throws a big right haymaker. This is assuming that the fight is starting with 2 people arguing and not a blindside assault.

Number 2 would be grabbing the shirt with the left and then punching with the right. (this is usually after #1 though)

Number 3 is one guy bear hugging another and picking him up and throwing him down (front of side position, haven't seen one from behind before).

lejon
7th May 2002, 17:36
This is indeed an interresting subject, here is a link with information related to the subject.

http://user.netomia.com/srsi/jn1.html

Regards
-Leif Jonsson

Paul Steadman
10th May 2002, 08:20
G'day,

Thanks all, great stuff, exactlt what I'm looking for. I am trying to address real-life assaults and defensive tactics against same in regards to application in the security/protection industry in New South Wales. Thanks again.

Regards,

Paul Steadman

INFINOO
10th May 2002, 19:03
Paul Steadman: I have been thinking how to write this with out it coming out like a E-budo guide to street attacks. The thing is how do you defend if you know not the attack? So here goes.
First of all From my experience street attacks happen in street clothes(tight)bad light and lousy footing under high stress. An example would be being jumped by a couple of rough looking types in a parking lot at night with snow on the ground, So Im not sure training in gyms on hardwood in loose clothing is going to prepare you for the street. Fight the way(and where) you train and train the way(place) you fight. Confined area's that limit mobility like hall ways between cars or in them and public bath rooms are worth considering. Of course low lighting, and loud music like you would find in a bar are where a good chunk of fights break out. Its a sad fact that more attacks happen inside our house's from people we know( Friends and family) especially when drugs and alchohal are involved than the so called "street predators".
Anyway up to thisw point no one has addressed the knife element of todays street predators and there role in attacks. Its a good idea to check the hands of any potential attacker for knives/guns. I will repeat that for emphasis "WATCH THE HANDS" A shinny clip in the front pocket is another dead give away. Is the potential bad guy (he or she) palming somthing? Is one of his or her hands hidden from your sight? Are on of the hands below the line of sight. Somtimes, signals like these are missed in the heat(stress) of the moment. It sucks realizing "hey, where is all this blood coming from". And you realize its leeking out of you. After the fact is "no time" to say "where did that knife come from"!
Spending time learning how to use a knife (knife/counter knife) goes along way to being able to succesfully defend against it. More on this later.
Once the two potential combatants are inside of three feet the most common and successfull naked hand attacks and the response we at RCI use are as follows
1.Distracting by one attacker as another attacker moves attacks from the side. - Breathing and not getting tunnel vision is key here as well as being aware of your surroundings. Keep your MAI.
2. Two handed push to the chest sending the victom back pedalling on to his ass or back of his head. Or if in a crowded area into walls over tables, threw windows or into bystanders who are unaware.- In this case distance is your friend, if you can touch the bad guy he can touch you. Action is faster than reaction every time. Cover your center and keep good 45 degree bent knee stance" on the balls of your feet" to your attacker may be a good idea. We have found simple two handed deflections work the best.
3. A right hook thrown "from the hands at the side" to the side of head. Not a haymaker mind you , but a hook puch that comes from below the line of sight. A variation of this is the open handed "bitch slap" to the ear :eek:. - keeping your hands up one slightly in front of the other in what we have coined
"please dont f**king hit me postion" with the shoulders up and chin down in a submissive slouch is somthing we practice "alot" Plenty of verbalization(grovelling) like "please dont hurt me" "Im sorry" "I dont want any trouble" may give the attacker a "false" sense of confidence. Which pave the road to simple direct eye jabs. When training eye protection please.
4. The take down to "ground and pound".- a little tactical mobility combined with palm shots to the side of thge head and elbows combined with the wrestlers sprawl goes a long way to being taken to the ground.
5.(Nutting) Headbuts followed by kick to the balls than boots to the head. - Do it to him before he does it to you.
At Rogalsky Combatives International we spend a good majority of the time dealing with these types of attacks. If you need further info let me know. I didnt mean to make this come out like an ad for my business its just I felt I needed to give both sides of the coin Attack/defense.
Regards
Gregory Rogalky
Rogalsky Combatives International

Kevin Meisner
11th May 2002, 04:08
Good thread! Keep the examples coming!

Kevin Meisner

Paul Steadman
11th May 2002, 07:07
Hi Again,

In your professional/experiential opinion, what 5 or 10 "habitual acts of violence," or common aggressive techniques should a basic (beginner) module of Defensive Tcatics/Self Defence programme address. What 5 or 10 basic defensive techniques/manouvres would you suggest as a counter to the above attacks. The defenses should (I think) be flexible and be able to to be applied against all attacks (ie: mix-n-match, adapted etc)? English, karate, judo or aikido terminology would suffice?

The above would be taught to civilians, police and security officers who may have some or no experience in martial arts or combat sports. Thanks for your assistance. All the best.

Regards,

Paul Steadman

Jonathan
11th May 2002, 09:38
Originally posted by Kevin73

Number 3 is one guy bear hugging another and picking him up and throwing him down (front of side position, haven't seen one from behind before).

How would you defend against this?

Thanks

PwarYuex
11th May 2002, 12:01
Originally posted by Jonathan


How would you defend against this?


Depends if the guards want to watch them fight ;)
Seriously though, I would use my long nails in the other guys eyes, or slam his back, then again it all depends on the situation.

Kevin73
12th May 2002, 05:02
After the first time I saw the slam I started working on counters on how to defend it. I guess with everything else awareness is number 1.

Some of the things I've come up with are. As soon as he grabs IMMEDIATLEY drop your weight/stance down and widen it. This gives you a better base and makes it harder to pick you up. Also follow up right away with striking techniques to get him away.

The other thing I have used that has work for me is I was working out with some wrestlers and working defenses against a takedown and when he grabbed around my waist like that and lifted me, I pulled both knees up towards my chest. This does 2 things, it basically doubles your weight and also if they are using a heel trap to help with the trip/throw it automatically counters that. Everytime I have done that, I have always been able to plant my feet back down.

I'm interested in hearing other ideas as well though

Stephenjudoka
12th May 2002, 12:13
The most common attacks I have come across are right hooks, headbutting and just lately stabs to the neck.

I might add these have not been carried out on me but have been the incidents we have had to deal with.

I have lots of CCTV copies of incidents that have happened in the street and most of the face to face confrontation starts with a swinging haymaker (right hook) and then the fighters close with each other and start to grapple.

Sometimes the attack starts when the two are facing each other and are arguing, suddenly when one comes into range - Bang - headbut.

Knives are being used more and the area of attack seems to be to the neck. This looks like a right hook but the offender has a knife in their hands.

The other type of attack that seems common is the two attacker scenario.
One attacker argues with their prey (to keep their attention)whilst the second attacker carries out an attack on the blind side.

By watching this CCTV you can begin to learn the warning and danger signs fighters give off before they attack.
In almost every clip I have the attacker gives non - verbal cues that they are about to attack.
By learning and understanding these clues - you might be able to predict an attackers actions.

Stephen Sweetlove.

Chiburi
12th May 2002, 16:26
I read about a study done with the help of police and NFG (Non Fighting Generation; a group of tough looking men and women that patrol the streets trying to prevent disputes turning into fights.) here in Helsinki: every fourth (4th!!) teen here in the peaceful capital of Finland carries some kind of weapon for the purpose of using it in a real life encounter, or to use it against the person they're arguing with. It kind of shocked me. I've been carrying blades for a long time (underaged kid carrying too long blades..sometimes forgeting the knife attached to my back and causing funny faces by taking off the jacket covering it.) But it never crossed my mind that every 4th kid I see on the street might have something more than a fist in their attacking hand. Although most of them have no idea of its (blades) proper use, I've been taught to use 'em, fight against people with weapons. But still, it seems that if I get in a fight with some underaged kid asking for a smoke (I don't smoke, so they often start f***ing with me) I probably will have to fight against an armed assailant. Will I survive? Hopefully with a few cuts..

An other thing about Helsinki: every summer a few people get stabbed just for fun by KIDS! Damn it! Racists beat up some foreign kid just for fun..YOUNG Finns. If I see someone being beaten by a group of youngsters, I'll take them out with dirty tricks instead of trying to talk some sense to them.

Where's this world going? When I was young..oh yes, I still am!!

PS. The guy from NFG that was interviewed by the mag made a stunning comment: "..and think about what kids with budo [probably meaning all MA,s] experience can do.." . That really shocked me -- do we train killers here in Finland instead of making them better people, or is it just the media?

To relate this to what Mr. Steadman said, they mostly, according to what I've heard, either slash with the knife (if they've been threatening the victim before the incident), but most are stabs to the chest and lower abdomen. And a few kicks to the head when they're down...old folks, foreigners--no mercy.


Regards from the sinking Hell :rolleyes: ,

PwarYuex
13th May 2002, 10:51
DO'H! I just typed a message and it didnt go! DOH!.
Anyway, in summary :P :
I have seen many school fights (serious School VS School fights), and something that I noticed is that Larger people tend to go for the Rugby tackle, and tend to do the lift and keep pushing untill they crash into something.

When the fights aren't organsied, and are caused by an arguement, one person pushes/grabs with one had, and punches into the stomach or face. Good to learn some form of Omote Gyaku wiht a punch?

If the fight is organsded, knives are bought, and well whatever technique you do for that is your tabbulie (did I just make that word up?).

Anyway, your probably thinking "why the hell is he telling us about school fights?", well in Sydney, 60% of Muggins+Assault are committed by youths under the ages of 25.

My bit of advice for people who live in the most broken into place in a city (Roseville), is to remember that it is more than likly that if your getting mugged by only 1 person, he will have friends somewhere. Ohh, and also you can't learn Jackie Chan moves off TV

Food for thought.

Cheers and Ciao ( I feel half Italian today ;) )