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View Full Version : Getting your ikyu/nikyu 1Q/2Q in Japan!!



Jody Holeton
22nd May 2002, 07:03
Dear all,

I know that there are people on this forum who read/speak/write Japanese.

I REALLY NEED to get my Japanese up!
Any advice?
What books are good?
Where can I get more info?
Is there a good intensive program?
Should I take the test in Japan?

Thanks--

Jody Holeton

kabutoki
22nd May 2002, 09:54
hi jody !
we used a very antique book from waseda university in the course back in hamburg, germany.
many people recommend "japanese for busy people". i just browsed through it once myself, but it seemed ok to me.
i´ll ask my teacher about some good books. as you are in japan you can also stick to the books published by the japan times. they cover a wide range of topics, grammar included. what i bought myself in the moment i saw it was

1. the basics
http://bookclub.japantimes.co.jp/english/pages/0384.html

2. intermediate level
sorry, couldn´t find a link, it´s got a blue cover instead of yellow.

i use both of them to translate texts or to review notes i took during classes.
hope this might be a beginning of help...

karsten

Adam Young
22nd May 2002, 19:48
Jody,

When I lived in Japan, I found that my Japanese improved quite a bit (from nothing to 3-kyu in a few months) after I studied at a Japanese class for about 6 weeks, bought a good Wa-Ei dictionary and started to read comics. I did this while teaching full time and never really getting much opportunity to speak Japanese for much of the day.

For spoken Japanese, nothing beats being there, going outside and talking to people. Practice makes perfect. But you need something to practice. I have never found a Japanese instruction book that I really liked. Once I had the core basics, I read comics and looked up what I didn't know. Vocabulary is easy to acquire. For grammer, I think the best books up to an intermediate level are the two books by Seiichi Makino and Michio Tsutsui called, respectively, "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar" and "A Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar." These are the best, and I used the first on a daily basis when I was there (the 2nd hadn't been published yet).

For kanji, I am impressed with James W. Heisig's three books. They are written to teach adult non-Japanese how to read, write and understand all of the Joyo kanji. They are actually quite good if you stick with the system, although I think supporters of the "write-it-out-a-thousand-times" system may be uncomfortable with them. His system does work though, and it will give you a remarkable degree of kanji fluency in a short amount of time.

Adam Young
22nd May 2002, 20:08
I arrived in Japan with no Japanese other than the abilty to sound out the kana, and in less than a year got to the point where I could have written the 2-kyu and passed. Other than 6 weeks of 15 hrs/wk at a Japanese school, I did this all by self study, with a full-time job. When I came back to North America, I started university classes in Japanese as a 3rd year, and was in the top group in terms of language ability in September.

I am not especially skilled in language learning, but I worked hard.

Good luck,

Adam

Jody Holeton
23rd May 2002, 00:02
Dear Adam,

How well did you do on your 2Q?

Did you take the 3Q first?

Adam Young
23rd May 2002, 18:26
Jody,

When I lived in Japan (in 1993), the first test I did was the 3-kyu, which I aced. I forget my score, but it was by a comfortable margin. I should have done the 2, but chickened out.

I never got around to testing again until about 4 years later (1997), a few years after I had returned to Canada. My Japanese hadn't improved much through lack of practice in the year prior to the level 2 test, but I still passed it. I forget the score, but the comfort margin was much less than on the 3-kyu. Reading was fine but my listening was pretty sloppy by that point.

Level 1 is next on the list, but working as a lawyer full-time and having a family doesn't leave much time for study. When I move to Japan next year, hopefully I can take the time to do it.

Cheers.

Adam

Jody Holeton
23rd May 2002, 23:59
Dear all,

Just did my first Japanese class in Utsunomiya last night!! Im a little sloppy and I was tired from work BUT I still endured!!

The instructor told me I am about at the sankyu (3Q) level BUT I am thinking that if I study real HARD I can go for my 2Q this XMAS!!

I have to work from 8-4 BUT if I give up JUDO (NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!)
I can take more Japanese classes!!!


I will buy the nihongo nouryoku kentei shiken prep books (3Q-4Q) and the BIG 2Q ones!!

Wish me luck!!

Who on this forum holds a 4Q-1Q???

Chris Li
24th May 2002, 01:55
Originally posted by Jody Holeton
Dear all,

Just did my first Japanese class in Utsunomiya last night!! Im a little sloppy and I was tired from work BUT I still endured!!

The instructor told me I am about at the sankyu (3Q) level BUT I am thinking that if I study real HARD I can go for my 2Q this XMAS!!

I have to work from 8-4 BUT if I give up JUDO (NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!)
I can take more Japanese classes!!!


I will buy the nihongo nouryoku kentei shiken prep books (3Q-4Q) and the BIG 2Q ones!!

Wish me luck!!

Who on this forum holds a 4Q-1Q???

It's been a few years, but I did the 2nd and the 1st. As I recall, the 4th and 3rd level exams are quite easy - a lot of people go for third after a very short time. 2nd is (or was) required for admission to "specialty schools", so it's a bigger jump from 3. 1st is (or was) usually what's required for university admission and is another big jump from 2. IMO, a lot of the stuff on the the level one examination can be too picky about minor grammatical details that even Japanese people don't get - you have to be careful (especially if you're living in Japan) to keep the differences between normal usage and "correct" usage clear in your mind.

Of course, once you deal with those you can always go on to the Kanji tests...

Best,

Chris

Jeff Hamacher
31st May 2002, 06:32
Originally posted by Jody Holeton
>> What books are good? <<

i've posted just such a list more than a few times; run a thread search with my name and "japanese textbook". if you want advice off-board, e-mail me.

>> Is there a good intensive program? <<

there are several, and friends of mine have really benefitted from studying under them. on the other hand, i've never paid a yen for my japanese instruction (a good volunteer teacher), and i've never really felt the need to do an intensive course. there are two well-known and established schools in Kyoto and Kanazawa (???), but i have no details at my fingertips.

>> Should I take the test in Japan? <<

it's hardly necessary since you can take the exam at many different places around the globe, but if you're going to be in japan for a few years, doing the test here will help keep your study on schedule. and you need to study japanese if you're going to live here.

you probably shouldn't need more than 2-3 hours of in-class study per week, assuming that you're disciplined enough to study on your own every, and i mean every, day. my one and only class ran for about 3 hours one night a week, and that stood me in good stead. it also left me with 3 other nights a week for aikido!

i arrived in japan in july 1996, started classes in september, and sat 4Q in december. my JPE records go something like:

4Q) after 3 months i barely passed because i didn't pace my study correctly and had to cram nearly half the exam material two weeks beforehand.

3Q) 1997 - i aced it at 89%.

2Q) 1998 - failed it. hadn't learned grammar or vocabulary properly and struggled with the reading comprehension.

2Q) 1999 - just passed it. the reading/grammar segment still threw me some curves. i hadn't been very disciplined with study since my failed attempt, but i think i just had more time to absorb grammar and vocabulary.

1Q) 2001 - "aced" it with an overall score of 84%. reading comprehension and characters/vocabulary weren't as hard as i thought they'd be. one-point grammar and listening were trickier than i reckoned.

because they cover such a broad range of material, passing the 2Q and 1Q exams can really be just a matter of luck, i.e. if by chance you've learned the material that appears on the test you can have a very easy time of it, but if not, you'll crash and burn. i'm also quite sure that my 1Q pass owes to a good measure of luck with more than a few quasi-intelligent guesses (as you probably know, the thing is all multiple choice). no matter what, the listening is always a crap shoot, 'cuz if you get it, you get it, and if not, way not! as Chris points out, the 1Q level grammar often represents very formal constructions which you won't hear that often in conversation, but there's also a good bunch that i hear and read all the time. if you're serious about your japanese i wouldn't write off 1Q grammar entirely.

HTH, Jody, and regardless, study my son! you'll thank yourself later.

Jody Holeton
31st May 2002, 07:11
Thanks Jeff,

How about the test prep books?

I have 1 for 4Q and 3Q (they don't seem that hard).

I am thinking about looking for the 2Q one this weekend and using that as my main area of study with BASIC Kanji books 1 & 2 (red and blue covered) and this Intermediate book my buddy Jo is bringing me.

I am THINKING about going for my 3Q this Xmas... Depending on how I do with the prep materials and kanji...


Did you prepare for the tests by using the official guides? Is that a good format to follow?
Are they a waste of money?

red_fists
31st May 2002, 07:43
Jody.

I will post you tonight titles of 2 prep Books for 1Q/2Q that I used.
They were recommended by my Japanese School.

As well as some Kanji Books that were created by a Japanese School whose owner helps prepare the Tests.

1Q/2Q are ok if you wanna enter a Japanese school, but they don't really help that much with conversation skill.

There is another Test (JTOC) that will test your communications skills and might suit your needs better.

Here is some additional Info:
http://www.saitama-j.or.jp/~sia/English/tests.html

Due to my Business needs I skipped on 2Q &1Q and went for JTOC instead as I need to communicate a lot with Clients.

Currently between 2Q & 1Q, but not sure if I will take the Tests.

Hope it will help you.

Peace.

Jody Holeton
31st May 2002, 08:01
Thanks Red!

I really appreciate that!

Getting by in Japan is hard work!! Learning Japanese seems even harder!!

Later--Jody

red_fists
31st May 2002, 08:07
Jody.


Getting by in Japan is hard work!! Learning Japanese seems even harder!!


Yup, it can be an adventure, when I arrived I had bassically NO Japanese skills.

But than luckily my wife helped me out to get started.

Seeya.

Jeff Hamacher
31st May 2002, 09:46
Originally posted by Jody Holeton
>> How about the test prep books? <<

there are plenty of different prep (sample problem) books & tapes around. buy a copy of an old 3Q/4Q test (2000's exam should be on the shelves, 2001's test will come out around august) and give that a try, strictly following the time limits. both of those levels are bundled and come with a tape for the listening section. that'll give you an idea of what you're up against in terms of both content and format. from that, you yourself can judge which sample problem books will be most useful.

for the list of my favourite study guides, run that search i suggested; i'm just too lazy to type it all out again!:D

>> I have 1 for 4Q and 3Q (they don't seem that hard). <<

they're not, but i'd recommend that you find a way to systematically cover all the material.

>> I am THINKING about going for my 3Q this Xmas... Depending on how I do with the prep materials and kanji... <<

i say go for it! you've got quite a bit of time to study and you already have some japanese under your belt, don't you? the japanese application forms will be available for sale around the middle of august and they include some english instructions, but i'd still get help from a good japanese speaker.

>> Did you prepare for the tests by using the official guides? <<

by "official guides", do you mean the syllabus book (my 1994 copy has a mostly white with light blue and black cover)? if so, yes, get the syllabus if only for the vocabulary and kanji lists. you may need a good japanese speaker to help you with some of it because it's written entirely in japanese with relatively little english. to be honest, i don't know what other "official guides" exist.

the association that sets and runs the exam has a website. run a Google search for "japanese proficiency exam" and it should turn up.

red_fists
31st May 2002, 10:48
Jody.

Look out for these Books:

"Self graded Japanese Language Test Progressive Exercises"
by
ALC Press Japanese Text Book Series.

There are different levels:
3Q would be the beginners book
2Q intermediate
etc.

Actually I found most of their Books to be great and any bigger Bookstore should have an "ALC Corner".
For Kanji Dictionary I use:

The Learner's Kanji Dictionary
by Mark Spahn & Wolfgang Hadamitzky
Tuttle Press.

Kanji exercise Books are by
ARC Academy
which is a Japanese school that releases their own Books.
Not sure about availability in the rural areas though.

Also not sure if available where you are, but some schools offer a "Trial Exam", you bassically sit the Exam with the same limitations as the real one around October and get given hints where to study more.
They are often coupled with an Intensive Course.

Hope this helps.

P.S.: Even if you pass last Years test, no guarantee as was mentioned luck plays a big role and they try to toughen the test every Year.

Rennis
31st May 2002, 23:23
Jody,

My personal opinion is that there is not point in paying the money for the unless you are sure you are going to pass it. Get some practice tests and try them out first. There is a VERY large gap between the material covered in the 3kyu and the 2kyu. We had to take these tests every semester at school in Akita (they used copies of pervious years' tests so we could do it three times a year) and invariably student would ace the 3 kyu, take the 2kyu the next semester and fail horribly, quite often failing it the next semester as well. The gap between the 1kyu and 2kyu is also big, but not as big as the gap between the 3kyu and 2 kyu. Also be aware that Monbusho decided to make these tests harder about two years ago as well. Another factor to keep in mind is that even if you have no problem using Japanese in your everyday life, you might still have alot of trouble with these tests as from the 2 kyu the focus alot on textbook, formal type Japanese you don't normally come across that often. On the other hand, I have met a couple of people who have passed the 1kyu, but were completely worhtless when it came to actually using the Japanese langauge, so it could work either way I guess.

As for books, there are a ton of books available, so it is really just a matter of finding something that works for your learning style. The Japan Time recently released a series of three books called "“ú–{Œêƒpƒ??[ƒAƒbƒv‘??‡–â‘è?W?@Integrated Execises for Japanese Langauge Proficiency" (Levels A,B, and C), which I have been using for review puropses myself. I also hunted down some 2kyu and 1kyu kanji books too and used them alot. I personally found kanji was a great way to rack up the points without too much effort, but grammar is definately an area you want to focus on as well as it is 50% of the test's points. This was my weakest point on the later tests as I found it harder for me to reinforce all this proper academic-type in my daily life, where as listening and kanji were no problem. One other little trick I developed from taking these things so often was that when you come to the grammar section, do it from the middle to the end, then go back to the beginning. This is because the first several questions involve reading several articles of some sort and then answering a few questions on each of them, where as rest of it is short multiple choice questions which are easy to do quickly and equal alot of points. In the test booklet the articles are about half of the physical pages, but about only a quarter of the actual points. Often people end up using most of their time for the grammar section reading the articles and answering the handful of questions one is asked about them, and then run out of time on the short multiple choice questions, which is where the majority of the actual points are. Of course this is just me so....

Best regards,

Rennis Buchner

Jody Holeton
3rd June 2002, 00:50
Dear all,

Thank you for your advice!!!

My best friend Jo just sent me 2 e-mails pushing me to take my 2Q this December!
I HAVE 5 MONTHS TO GET MY ACT TOGETHER! I will take Rennis's advice and take some practice tests first!!

Is there any writing on the test? Is it all scan tron?

*
In addition: This teast MEANS ALOT right? ALL Japanese colleges require it for foreigners right?
*

red_fists
3rd June 2002, 01:37
Is there any writing on the test? Is it all scan tron?


I think there is a bit of writing needed, during the listening skill bit.


In addition: This teast MEANS ALOT right? ALL Japanese colleges require it for foreigners right?


That was the aim of the test to see if People can enter the Japanese schooling system. Emphasis during this Test is reading, listening and correct grammar usage in writing.

Communication skill is not tested that much, actually you can sit the whole test without saying one word..

Keep also in mind that until a few Years ago, there were not many other tests around. In the last few Years a range of Tests have sprung up to gather for a different skill mix.
As the standard proficiency Test does not really gather for business/every day needs that much.

Peace.

P.S.: Get somebody that know how to fill in the Test Application Form to assist you. They can be confusing.

Rennis
3rd June 2002, 01:54
Jody,

Most colleges actually require the 1kyu if you want to attend them, although it varies depending on the type of school and such. I have heard trade type schools might take the 2kyu, but the 1kyu is the standard.

Rennis Buchner

P Goldsbury
3rd June 2002, 02:30
Originally posted by Rennis
Jody,

Most colleges actually require the 1kyu if you want to attend them, although it varies depending on the type of school and such. I have heard trade type schools might take the 2kyu, but the 1kyu is the standard.

Rennis Buchner

We are thinking of making 1kyu a requirement for non-Japanese students applying to come here as kenkyusei. There is a separate test for prospective graduate students which is set by the Asian Studies department and is much more difficult than 1kyu.

Best regards,

______________
P A Goldsbury,
Graduate School of Social Sciences,
Hiroshima University

Jody Holeton
3rd June 2002, 05:02
Dear PA,

Harder than 1Q?

Kenkyusei? Grad student?
Can foreigners REALLY get their PHDs in Japan?
Will a PHD from Japan mean much in America?
Will aan 1Q/2Q from Japan mean much to Japanese language programs and/or Japanese companies?

P Goldsbury
3rd June 2002, 12:42
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jody Holeton
[B]Dear PA,

Harder than 1Q?

PAG Well, in the language test for graduate studies there is much essay writing. Students have to write essays in Japanese within a certain time limit and the quality of the writing style, as well as content, is also assessed.

Kenkyusei? Grad student?

PAG A kenyusei is someone who comes to study here independently under a professor. Up to now there has been no language requirement, but there has occasionally been trouble when students with no Japanese and no English try to settle in what is a small country city (Higashi-Hiroshima). You know, the natives get restless. A graduate student enters the full university system and has to take quite a number of courses given and examined in Japanese.

Can foreigners REALLY get their PHDs in Japan?

PAG Well, Hiroshima University has about 800 non-Japanese students and is seeking to increase this number to 1,000, or around 5% - 8% of the student number. Most come from Asia, but there are quite a number of westerners. All my own Ph.D students have been Japanese, but an American is planning to do a Ph.D under my supervision in comparative culture. One problem will be his Japanese language ability.

Will a PHD from Japan mean much in America?

PAG In my experience, humanities faculties of Japanese universities are very poor in comparison with the graduate schools I have attended (Harvard and London). But the graduate schools are rather better than the undergraduate faculties. There would be little point in coming to Japan to do a Ph.D. in western philosophy, but comparative culture, especially comparative culture involving Japanese, is another matter. For example, we have enough people here to do some very adequate research into the history of Japanese budo, for example. The main problem I have with much research done in America concerning Japanese culture, especially budo, is that the Japanese sources have not been covered anywhere near adequately. There are some notable exceptions, however.

Will aan 1Q/2Q from Japan mean much to Japanese language programs and/or Japanese companies?

PAG I have no idea about this. But one of my own ex-kenkyusei works for a Japanese company in California. I am not aware if he has taken any language tests.

Best regards,

_______________
P A Goldsbury,
Graduate School of Social Sciences,
Hiroshima University

P Goldsbury
3rd June 2002, 14:46
Jody,

A footnote to my last post.

I have a Japanese student who is researching the role of the lower ranking samurai in bringing about the Meiji Restoration. Specifically, the question is why these samurai turned from warfare to negotiation.

In a passage on Page 51 of Stanley Pranin's "Aikido Masters", Kenji Tomiki Sensei states that,

"The famous Katsu Kaishu was a student of Kenzai Shimada. During the struggle for control of the country in the early Meiji Period, Katsu Kaishu and Tesshu Yamaoka of the Jiki Shinkage-ryu tradition of swordsmanship negotiated the transfer of Edo castle to the Imperial forces without a struggle, thereby saving the one million inhabitants of Tokyo from a disastrous battle. This story is extremely interesting. It shows the true spirit of budo is to help people, to save lives...."

I am not really sure whether Katsu Kaishu embodied the true spirit of budo, as Tomiki Sensei states, but his account shows a bias in favour of the Bakufu side. It does not mention the role of the lower samurai from the han ranged against the bakufu, notably Sakamoto Ryoma, who actually was a deshi of Katsu Kaishu.

I am very happy to be supervising this student. He is very bright, studies shorinji kempo, and it keeps my working knowledge of Japanese up to scratch, for virtually everything about Katsu Kaishu and Sakamoto Ryoma is in Japanese. Only Marius Jansen and Romulus Hillsborough have written anything in English of any worth. So there are reams of stuff to read. A non-Japanese student would have to master all these texts.

So, I would repeat that, yes, it is possible for non-Japanese to take a Ph.D. in Japan, but, depending on the topic, mastery of the language, in all 4 skills, is essential. I am not really sure where 1-kyu would figure here.

Best regards,

________________
P A Goldsbury,
Graduate School of Social Sciences,
Hiroshima University

Jody Holeton
13th June 2002, 04:11
Dear Dr.Goldsbury,

Thank you for your advice! I am hoping to do some research on "Japanese students and motivation." Being able to read is such a necessity in Japanese culture! I get by with my BAD Japanese but I can't fake the reading part!

I believe having a realistic language goal (like the 1Q) will help prime me for real-life Japanese. We shall see.

Where can I find information on graduate programs in Japan? Have you heard of any Japanese schools offering a PHD in Second Language Acquisition?