adrenaline

[meat]

Hi guys. I was recently looking at another martial arts board and noticed a thread where someone was asking about the advantages of adrenaline in a fight. Something that made me curious was when someone said that he kicked a guy in the nuts repeatedly and it didn't affect him. What are your thoughts on this? How much does adrenaline dampen pain? Does anyone have any personal experiences to share?

[shadow42]

adrenaline can have the affect of being so amped up that you dont notice pain, but usually youll notice it later. Most of the stores of "kicked in the crotch nine times and didnt feel it" are from a combo of adrenaline and drugs or from some juko kai people or something:D

[Chiburi]

I wouldn't want to be that guy after the adrenaline frisson goes away..ouch :D. Adrenaline makes you stab-resistant, so why wouldn't it make you nut cracker -resistant? :D He's not going to make little tough guys afterwards, though. That's for sure!

Cheers from the Nut Cracker Arizona 1969 Certified Grandmaster -Cracker,

[meat]

Actually, another thought that has come up. Do the effects of adrenaline negate pressure point strikes? If getting hit in the balls doesn't do anything, then surely the use of pressure points in a fight is totally useless. Any thoughts?

[Chinjab]

Pressure-point strikes are functionally useless in a fight. There are too many ifs - if they work, and if you can pull off the strike in the car-crash momentum of real violence.

At best Dim Mak and Ryukyu Kempo type pressure points only "work" on some people, sometimes, under their dojo laboratory conditions. :rolleyes:

It's just more crap for hucksters to sell to the naive.

[shadow42]

The best you can do with kyusho/pressure points whatnot is that if the oppurtunity for the strike exists, go for it, but dont rely on them solely. Cause its true, some people just wont feel em, wether it be from their body, the drugs their on, the 4th sixpack they drank tonight, or whatever. And some that do feel it can just shrug it off.

[joe yang]

Then there are those freaks who actually get off on getting pounded down. Some people take a shot in the nuts like mana. The adrenaline/endorphine rush, the whole psychology of violence and abuse get all twisted up into a sexual thing.

If you think I'm kidding, wait till you confront one of these guys. And the martial arts does attract them, particularlly the fringe groups, the para military, mystical, custom uniform crowd, check out some of the bad budo threads. (Not to say everyone who practices greek, iron shirt, satin dogi jumpsuit MA is a freak.)

[Jens]

What about joint locks? If adrenaline dampens pain, trying to control someone would be a...hrm...real pain, so to speak. I guess LE officers can tell us a lot about this.

Jens Nasstrom

[shadow42]

Bad thing about joint locks is that if someone is really blasted or on adrenaline and dont feel the pain, and you try to do a pain compliance joint lock thing, and they dont feel it and start flailing around like an idjit, then they usually break whatever joint your trying to control. Then when the cops get there they say "hmm excessive force" and they arrest you. self defense laws are fun, really i mean it!

[Chiburi]

What about targeting arteries ? They should work even under drugs, alcohol etc. Although that could be seen as excessive use of force...only as a last resort?

Cheers,

[Remodes]

Hello all,

Arteries are still effective against persons on drugs, alcohol, or
sheer nastiness. But you are correct that most times they are considered "excessive force" and considered a "last resort". They are not "taught" at most law enforcement academies, and an example why is the case of the off-duty police officer who choked a man to death a couple of years ago. They are effective but for most cases if you aren't training in their use frequently for submission-type activities (a la BJJ) there is the possibility that you hold the choke a tad too long or vice-versa let the choke go too early and get stomped.

As far as joint locks, the same with kyusho/pressure points, every lock does not work on every person. Some are immune to the pain but there are several locks which lock or "freeze" the skeletal structure. If one lock doesn't work that is why you learn how to flow into another instead of sitting there trying to make one work and the same can be said for the example where you break the drunk's joint when he resists.

Same thing with strikes, not all strikes are going to work everytime, that is the whole point of learning a comprehensive martial art, boxing is great until you meet a wrestler, wrestling is good until you meet a ju-jitsu man, and all of that is great until you bring a knife to a gunfight.

When you train train with the intent that you will have to use your skills. If a lock doesn't work, throw em and try the lock again, if you can't get the choke, punch and kick them until they are more responsive to your requests that they calm down.

And the thing to remeber is that adrenaline prepares you to fight or run. If the guy looks like he is ready to fight that means your job is that much tougher, but on the flip side your adrenaline should be running too and that means that you are not going to be as aware of how hard you are striking, locking or choking.

From my experiences most drunks are not going to have an adrenaline rush (alcohol is a suppressant), most of the time it is their friends you have to look out for and most drunks who wind up in fights get drunk to have an excuse to fight (much like the "pain junkies" mentioned earlier). People on drugs are unpredictable unless you know what they are on, you won't know until you hit someone square on that you realize this is not someone i should be hitting.

And if there are any other questions on the effects of adrenaline watch "COPS" some night. They usually have one guy who is drunk, drugged, or plainly insane and it takes 3 or 4 cops to hold him down and handcuff him (remember cops can't strike you when there is a camera present.)

Hope my two cents makes sense,

R. Killimett

[Chiburi]

Great reply, Mr. Killimet!

I've watched COPS, and they sure get to have fun ;).

Just for curiosity, do you happen to be EMT/LEO.. etc.?

Cheers,

[Kit LeBlanc]

Originally posted by Remodes


...remember cops can't strike you when there is a camera present.



Oh yes we certainly can, so long as the situation merits it. It just doesn't look good. But don't confuse what is reasonable and necessary use of force with how it looks on TV.

Since your profile says you have a criminology degree, and are looking for gainful employment (I presume in the LE field), you will find this out soon enough.

[joe yang]

Oh yes we certainly can, so long as the situation merits it. It just doesn't look good. But don't confuse what is reasonable and necessary use of force with how it looks on TV. Kit LeBlanc