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mushinmaster
6th June 2002, 17:56
I was just diagnosed with this knee problem at 18. Does anybody out there have any home remedies or suggestions for dealing with this?

Bustillo, A.
6th June 2002, 21:55
Alex,

Perhaps your question should read,"is there a doctor in the house?"

I'm not making light of your situation, however, the person who diagnosed you should do the recommendation.

Even, so, how severe is the inflamation; acute, chronic?
Anyway, doesn't it affect only a small part of the tibia?


www.steadytraining.com

mushinmaster
7th June 2002, 00:41
The dr. said that there are no operations or anything, and all I can do is ice it and take aleve. He said overtraining flared it up, and my sensei just said "I told you so..." hahaha

It looks like I've grown a knuckle on the top of my tibia, lol.

I've been icing it for about 4 hours a day, and it has really gone down. It does only affect the top of the tibia/bottom of the patella, yet I'm preparing for the army, and I need to be able to run.

Does anyone know anything I can do other than icing and taking anti-inflamatory?

The disease will not create any damage to the joint, and is supposed to clear up with age. It just creates pain and swelling with running and jumping. Most people have no more symptoms by age 18. Guess I'm just the lucky one, lol.

I'm really dishearted with the whole thing b/c I want to go to CBT prepared, and now I have to spend the next few weeks icing my knee and I have to cut back my mileage:(.

Shitoryu Dude
7th June 2002, 00:58
I came down with it on my left knee when I was about 14. Olympic decathlon athlete Dave Johnson also had it in both knees at the same time - he spent a couple of years toning down the amount of trouble he got into until it took care of itself.

I've found it to be kind of weird to look at, but all the literature I've ever found on the subject stated that it was effectively harmless and 'self-limiting'. It's not like your knee is going to end up looking like a knobby bowling ball or anything - I don't even really notice it anymore, but it has been 25 years.

:beer:

mushinmaster
7th June 2002, 03:08
at what age did it stop bothering you?

The doc said there wouldn't be any muscular/skeletal damage or anything, but i really need to heal up for this summer :(

Steven Malanosk
7th June 2002, 03:23
Having had a knee problem = a total dislocation from a full blast kick to the knee, which caused miniscus tearing and ligament ripping, I may be able to offer an answer for you.

After my operation years ago, I sometimes would jar my knee during training, which would often lead to inflamation and pain.

A fellow instructor introduced me to a Dr. Ting in NYC who did acupuncture along with an herb plaster.

Like magic my friend.

I hope this helps, and may God bless your time in the military.

Shitoryu Dude
7th June 2002, 03:30
I can't really say it ever really bothered me in the sense of pain and swelling. It was just that one day I noticed this honkin' big knot under my left kneecap. It was hard as a rock and just grew with me. I went through my initial growth spurt very quickly, I must have shot up about 8" in a year - if I had any additional aches and pains to what I was already experiencing they wouldn't have registered. I did a bit of reading, found out what it was, discovered that it was already too late to get rid of the bump, and just went on with life.

Today it's not really that noticeable unless you are looking right at my knee and comparing it to my other one. The bone growth is about the size of a large walnut half. I have full knee flexion up to about -8 degrees (better than average) so it doesn't impede me in any way.

The treatment for it hasn't changed much over the last 25 years - they do have some braces for it now, but that's it. What strikes me is that 18 is rather old to be getting this - 16 is usually the cutoff.

:beer:

mushinmaster
7th June 2002, 05:36
Mr. Malanosk - that was gonna be my next question! I know someone who holds a doctorate in chinese medicine, and who teaches it in NYC. He will be visiting the area, and I'm hoping he can help me. Thanks for the pointer!

Shitoryu - did you ever do a lot of running?

What's funny is I haven't grown heightwise since 7th grade! I did put on a good solid 20 lbs of muscle this year, which I guess may have been one of the reasons it flared up.

Did you go through a growth spurt after finding you had osgood's?
I don't really want to grow anymore - I'm hoping the days of tripping up on my own feet are over, lol!

The doctors initially thought I was too old also. I guess my muscle growth and my overtraining is what initiated the whole thing. I started to more than double my mileage in preparation for this summer:(. Bad move I guess.

PeteBoyes
7th June 2002, 07:07
My son (aged 13) was recently diagnosed with Osgood-Schlatters (too much mountain-biking). The doctor told him to completely rest and do nothing. However, the physiotherapist gave him a course of exercises to do - his hamstrings were also very tight and his leg was being bent out of shape.

The doctor just strengthened my prejudice that GPs know nothing about sports injuries and just read about pills and lotions. I suggest you try to find a specialist sports injuries doctor, or see a phsyiotherapist who can give you a balanced set of exercises so that you can rest the affected muscle groups while still building others.

Here's a link to a sports medicine website's views on Osgood-Schlatters... http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1998/03mar/wall_pa.htm

MarkF
7th June 2002, 08:50
I'm interested in how big you are, or were in the seventh grade since you say you haven't grown since then (I haven't grown since kindergarten, some say:) ). The majority of Schlatter's knee cases are caused by growth spurts, which I obviously didn't have, but a family member, in the summer between 7 and 8 grade, put on six inches in height all in that summer and came to school with a nice dose of it. He was given the usual advice to rest it, but no medication was presribed, OTC or scrips.

It went away after a while, but he continued to play basketball, his major sport (this was in the 1950s).

Anyway, it is a common, ideopathic disorder which can affect anyone at any age, but usually, the onstart is the early to middle teens during a spurt of growth in the joints.

I think if you try to translate the opinions of the physician, physiologist, and any other opinions you trust, is this: "Do the sensible thing. Take some aspirin or Advil, etc., and try not to put too much strain on it, especially when pain sets in. Think rationally. Pain serves a purpose, too, usually a warning sign that your body doesn't like what your mind is telling it to do.

If you are into non-traditional treatment, make sure your intake of proteins, minerals, etc., is sufficient. People rarely can make this work by eating correctly mainly because no one agrees on what "eating correctly" means.

Stop thinking about it. If you get this one down well, it just may go away.

Good health.


Mark

mushinmaster
7th June 2002, 19:53
peteboyes - my hamstrings have become very tight recently...unfortunatly time is something I don't have a lot of :(, and I visited a specialist. He just said stretch, ice, ice, ice, and aleve.:(:( thanks for the link!

Mark - i've been 6' since 7th grade. It was great then, tallest kid on the basketball team, blocked kids w/o jumping - this year I was the smallest forward in my whole council!

I think I'm gonna take my last three weeks and just ice the hell out of it, not run, and do a lot of swimming and boxing. Guess that's about all I can do:(.

ZenHG
7th June 2002, 22:31
Originally posted by mushinmaster
The dr. said that there are no operations or anything, and all I can do is ice it and take aleve. He said overtraining flared it up, and my sensei just said "I told you so..." hahaha

It looks like I've grown a knuckle on the top of my tibia, lol.

I've been icing it for about 4 hours a day, and it has really gone down. It does only affect the top of the tibia/bottom of the patella, yet I'm preparing for the army, and I need to be able to run.

Does anyone know anything I can do other than icing and taking anti-inflamatory?

The disease will not create any damage to the joint, and is supposed to clear up with age. It just creates pain and swelling with running and jumping. Most people have no more symptoms by age 18. Guess I'm just the lucky one, lol.

I'm really dishearted with the whole thing b/c I want to go to CBT prepared, and now I have to spend the next few weeks icing my knee and I have to cut back my mileage:(.

Hey,
I was diagnosed with osgood schlaughter's last year (at nineteen years old), so it really kindof perked my interest when I saw this topic on my screen.
At the time, I was practicing Zazen for thirty minutes every day, and training for about three hours every day.
I went to a friend's house, and started jumping on a trampoline, the next day, I woke up, my knee was in agony, and I had this terrible looking knot on my knee.
I though something might have happened to the bone, which kindof scared me, was a bit hesitant to see a Doctor about it, but the pain was too bad, I went in in a matter of an hour, and a half.

I was diangosed by two Doctors, and a Nurse, they all told me the same thing - "it is very rare for someone your age," blah, "take some anti-inflametories, ice it, and heat it," blah, "you'll have that knob on your knee for the rest of your life."
The knob is still there, it's gone down a lot since then, but it is still there, and still causes me annoyances here, and there.

Really kinda sucks, but I still practice daily, infact, I had been training in Jujitsu within a couple weeks after the hospital visit.

~David Chapman.
Sho-Rei-Shobu-Kan Budo Organization.

mushinmaster
7th June 2002, 23:03
its affected you since then??:(

Chiburi
7th June 2002, 23:28
Does anyone know if osgood's can appear under elbows? I have a lump under my right elbow that appeared after smashing boards with it. I work my elbows on makiwaras and heavy bags too, hard ukemis forwards etc., so they've seen a lot of hard surface..I've also managed to get my biceps in such a bad condition that I couldn't bend them over 90 degrees without the help of a wall etc., and that hurt like it was going to break (Being the idiot I usually am, I went to the Dojo like usual and attended 1,5h of joint manipulation, locks especially to the elbow, and throws from the elbow...that took care of the problem--and no one noticed my weird face :redhot: ). So, getting a lump wasn't really a surprise. I've suspected everything from a fracture to bone cancer, but now that I heard about this, I have one more name for the lump :). I can also mention that regular push-ups also caused aches to my right elbow for a while. I did use both ice and heat to calm it down, and they both seemed to work, along with ibu and aspirin. I mentioned about it to some erudite-looking nurse, but she ended up being some air-head and telling me to stop training fro a while..yeah right! :D Maybe I should have taken a break. I'm 16, train every day except Saturday and sleep usually from 4 to 8 hours a night, sometimes only 2. I drink coffee and coke like an old man, eat like a pig all food I can see. Oh, yes, in the mean time I do schoolwork and read, watch TV etc. Doc, what's the matter with me?

Cheers,

TommyK
8th June 2002, 01:39
Greetings,

In the summer between 7th and 8th grade I grew a little over 3 inches and came down with this disease. It was diagnosed at the Hospital for Special Surgery in NYC. Basically, kneeling on the knees hurt and because I went to Catholic grammar and then Catholic high school, I was exempt from kneeling, going to gym and given an elevator key for my 4 years of high school.

Eventually by sophmore year in college, the pain disappeared. I then really got involved with basketball, and then Martial Arts. The pain NEVER reappeared, but I have TWO of the ugliest lumps on the ends of my tibia!

In the 16 years I have spent in our non-profit school of Korean Karate and Self-Defense, these bumps have never been a problem for me.

Hope this experience relates and helps.

Regards,
TommyK
Tom Militello

mushinmaster
8th June 2002, 02:34
Chiburi - i think osgood's is only in the knee - seriously, if i was you, i'd take a break, and see a sports medicine doctor. At least stop hitting or punching or anything with that arm.

My sensei is 52, and used to train like a sunuvabitch. They called him mad dog. Now he can hardly train, b/c his hands, knees, shoulders, etc are all fuck up, b/c he didn't lay off!

if you're 16, you don't wanna get fucked up. I haven't run in two months with this shitty knee:( - and my career in the army may be in jeopordy!

TommyK - i'm hoping i can have your luck! That's what the doc has told me. I'm looking at a career in counter-terrorism, the hoo-ah stuff, and OSD doesn' mix, lol. I can live with two nasty bumps, I mean god, from training I have the roughest nastiest ugliest hands and feet in the world:D

Chiburi
8th June 2002, 11:26
That certainly is a wise thing to do. I'll find the makiwara a comfortable place on a shelf, far away from my reach if my ugly fists take control and...maybe I'll ease my cardio schedule as well, and swim more often instead of running up and down in the forest. Also, I think I'll concentrate on my MJER Iai-heiho, and give Taijutsu a break..only once a week. Are you happy now? :D I'll probably go see a sports doc next fall before I leave for Mt. Kilimanjaro, I think it can wait till then if it stays as a it is.

Future in CT sounds like a sweatty one ;), hope you make it. I have considered a career in the army, but here in Finland it means Defence Forces. Maybe I'll try to join the 22nd SAS CT unit, I heard they take foreigners as well, only allies probably, but I don't think they consider us the enemy :). That's IF I don't mess up myself TOO BAD in the next few years :D.

Thanks and GL, mate!

Cheers,

mushinmaster
9th June 2002, 03:11
Go for it. Kilimanjaro, eh? That's the type of experience I'm hoping I might be able to get while in the army. Sounds like you got life all set, bro. Just remember not to be too HOO-AH! That's my biggest problem to:D

Catch ya lata

Hank Irwin
23rd June 2002, 16:33
I had it too, for 3 yrs. in a row. My ankles, knees, was bed ridden for almost 8 months the last time around. I was a cross-country runner in junior/high school. SteveSan is probably closest to best remedy. Acupuncture, and good oils/salves will help greatly. Tiger balm is no'good for something like this. The disease is a growth that starts out under the kneecap and at the ankle joints. For some it is debilatating. I had to learn to walk and run all over again. One thing I did find that gave me good temporary relief was cold rushing water over the joints. The relief was over time though. I think our diets play a big part in it too. Doctors can't explain it thoroughly either. Which is kinda perplexing to say the least. Rest of the legs is very important also. Zing Gu Shui, Wood Block, Dit Da Jow(healing type), White Flower of Embrocation(green and red also)are all very good oils for this condition. Massage, to a point will only aggravate the condition. I remember the day I got out on the street after I could walk half way descent. I tried to run, fell flat on my face. You would not believe the wave of depression that came over me. I thought I would never run again. I was only 17 at the time. But thank goodness this ailment in most cases goes away with time. Just be patient and listen to your body, it will always tell you when something is wrong. And foremost, ask questions, lot's of them! Go grab that bag of ice now! My ice sessions were everyday and lasted all day. Stay away from conditioning! Better to be patient and recover than to run the risk of seriously damaging yourself for life. :D

jafwwjd
27th June 2002, 19:52
My brother got it going into 7th grade. He was a darn good baseball player up to that point, but because of his knees, he had to walk everywhere he went. My advice to you is to find out what exercises you will be able to do and pursue them as actively as you can without risking any further damage to yourself. On one hand, rest is the best cure, and on the other, you do not want to undergo severe atrophy. You'll get through it just fine, though. My brother's in much better shape now than he ever was. :D