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Budoka 34
10th June 2002, 14:02
I am interested in hearing your opinions of the rule changes made for kumite by the WKF.
What do you think?

:smilejapa

Matt MacKenzie
10th June 2002, 14:51
Would you mind posting the rules? Or is there a website for the WKF?

Budoka 34
10th June 2002, 15:54
Henry:

Sorry. That is a great idea!

Try: www.usankf.com
or
www.wkf.net

These rule changes went into effect in 2000 but are just starting to see widespread use. I fought under them last year and what a difference.

:smilejapa

Rogier
11th June 2002, 07:52
what is the difference between these and the older rules?

(don't know the older rules..)

Budoka 34
11th June 2002, 11:08
The old scoring system used Ippon and wazari. You either scored 1 point or 1/2 point for a given technique. That is the simple explanation. Also there was no sweeping or throws.
I'll check some sites and see if I can find a link to the old (sanbon) rules.

:smilejapa

Rogier
11th June 2002, 11:24
in that case I like the new rules better. Of course throws and sweeps should be allowed...

Harry Cook
11th June 2002, 12:15
For those interested in seeing the first tournament rules see Nishiyama and Brown Karate The Art of Empty Hand Fighting (Tuttle 1960) pages 187-189, and Tatsuo Suzuki Karate-Do (Pelham Books, London 1967). Sweeping and throwing were certainly allowed. The intent was to preserve as much of the martial as distinct from the sporting aspects as possible. personally i still think that these are the best rules, but that is probably a sign of my age.
Yours,
Harry Cook

Budoka 34
11th June 2002, 12:34
Great book! i just found a used hardbound edition.
As for the rules, there have been many groups with their own Kumite and kata rules. The first internationally accepted rules were an early version or the sanbon rules.
If I remember correctly Pat Hickey and Goerge Anderson were the two Americans working with the WUKO/WKF to develope limited contact rules. I may be mistaken. Can anyone help on this?

Some of the local Dojos still use the old ISKA style of rules. You stand in a fighting stance 18 to 24 inches away. They say fight and it's on! Points are awarded by the judges (5 of them) voting for who got the shot off first. Its not the most effective method I've seen and you see a lot more bias.

:smilejapa

Rob Alvelais
11th June 2002, 15:10
Originally posted by Budoka 34
The old scoring system used Ippon and wazari. You either scored 1 point or 1/2 point for a given technique. That is the simple explanation. Also there was no sweeping or throws.
I'll check some sites and see if I can find a link to the old (sanbon) rules.

:smilejapa

You're mistaken. Sweeping and throwing were allowed. A sweep that unbalances your opponent, with a punch or kick follow up, was awarded an Ippon. Now, it's Nihon for just unbalancing and scoring, I'll have to double check, and sanbon, if you knock him completely to the ground and score. The only prohibition in the old rules about throwing was, "Dangerous throws" were prohibited. And, they still are! Other than that, you could always throw. I did it at a WKF competition (actually, I think it was still WUKO) at the time, in 1991 at the North American Cup in Monterey Mexico.

Rob

Rob Alvelais
11th June 2002, 15:13
Originally posted by Budoka 34
Great book! i just found a used hardbound edition.
As for the rules, there have been many groups with their own Kumite and kata rules. The first internationally accepted rules were an early version or the sanbon rules.
If I remember correctly Pat Hickey and Goerge Anderson were the two Americans working with the WUKO/WKF to develope limited contact rules. I may be mistaken. Can anyone help on this?
:smilejapa

That's correct. They were working on it, as well as others, like Tommy Morris, to mention one.

Rob

Budoka 34
11th June 2002, 16:42
Rob:
You are correct sweeps were and are aloud. At most of the tournaments, using the old rules, that I have been to, they penalized sweeps as low kicks (especially in the AAU). It is, however, in the rules. I'll have to find the original WUKO book when I get home.

:smilejapa

Shitoryu Dude
11th June 2002, 21:22
I always hated the old rules (even though it was 1987 the last time I used them) because they didn't allow for better scoring for better technique. Too often somebody would be able to progress far beyond their actual relative abilities in a tournament by working the scoring system with half-assed techniques. Had it been full contact most of them would have been slaughtered, and they knew it.

We use the "new" scoring system at our dojo and have been for quite some time.

:beer:

Budoka 34
12th June 2002, 11:11
Harvey:

Per the norm, I agree!:D
I think the new rules provide a slightly improved vehicle for the karateka to demonstrate his/her capabilities.

:smilejapa