PDA

View Full Version : Red and Yellow, Black and White



Amphinon
13th June 2002, 19:46
What color Gi should be banned in your HO?

Amphinon
13th June 2002, 19:51
I have seen a Tie-Dye Gi top and even :mst: Sequins!

In my school, only solid white as a beginner, solid black as an intermediate, mixed white/black as advanced, and colored Gi can be added in the mix as a Black Belt.

Chiburi
13th June 2002, 19:57
If someone finds use for a yellow dogi...then I can only clap my hands! :D Whatever looks decent--neon colors? Nah. Marimekko dogis with horizontal, colored stripes on a white background? Nah. If there's a historical or a practical explanation for a yellow dogi, then fine.

Where do you get all these questions--are putting up your own Dojo? (or even MA??) Why? Why?

Cheers,

Amphinon
13th June 2002, 20:04
Ok, you caught me! I am trying to start my own Soke Authentication Society! I want our official Gi to have mixed colors with a splash of sequins, tassles, and many hidden compartments in order to hide documents referring to our own authentication. :D

Just kidding.

I (being fairly new to e-budo) wanted to get to know a few of the fellow posters. Just curious about other schools and what they find acceptable.

Shitoryu Dude
14th June 2002, 02:03
My personal opinion is that anything other than black or white just shows the wearer to be clueless. I think they look retarded, particularly when they start adding gobs of patches (that goes for any dogi) and other neat things to spice them up. The wearers of flashy or differently colored uniforms have totally forgotten that decorum and humility are integral parts of MA. I would think that good taste would fit in there as well - or simply the concept of less is more.

I, for one, fully support the tournament rules that state that participants will wear a white or black dogi in good condition and dojo patch - nothing more.

:beer:

Khahan
14th June 2002, 02:35
It doesn't make a difference to me. Personally, I get a kick out of going to touraments and seminars and seeing shiny red silk gi's with flashy belts and patches all over the place. It makes me feel like I'm in a gypsy carnival.
But let me ask you this: Why does there need to be some historical significance to the color?
What is the big deal about different people wearing different colored gi's?
Its just something to cover your body. Why are we supposed to not care about belt color but we are so pre-occupied with gi color?
Just for the record, on a serious, non-thought provoking note, I personally prefer plain white or black. I don't even have a school patch on my plain white gi. The plainer the better. But that is just me.
If its not your school or your kai, what's the big deal?

mushinmaster
14th June 2002, 03:14
The plainer the better

Right. I always thought, other than making everyone the same, a dogi was supposed to be white, clean, and clear of any patches or anything like that. I thought it was supposed to symbolize something of the karate attitude - emptiness, purity, clear mind, or maybe
mind-no-mind:) always having an empty cup...

And


And


AND!

Flashy gis that attract attention and are meant to look good certainly take away from this attitude and promote the ego, instead of conquering it...IMHO

MarkF
14th June 2002, 08:23
Well, If your pant is from Dad's zoot suit (with watch fob), your wearing spats on your bare feet, and a big, floppy hat with head band, It may be going too far.

I think since most of us will probably not be wearing a keikogi on the first night, or if one truly cannot afford one, loose sweat pants, and an old overcoat, buttons removed, will suffice as long as it takes to wear out The only people I know who wear a different color pant instead of the bottoms are those who prefer, or are most comfortable in, sweat pants. If your goal is to learn how to fight (and in many ways, most of us are learning how to do just that) it probably matters little.

Right now, I am looking at the person responsible for this thread, Jigoro Kano. He is in Germany, giving instruction to "foreign trainees in Berlin Ca 1933. Kano-sensei is not wearing a judogi but a western suit and tie, socks with no shoes. It is difficult to make out the number of judo shugyosha, but I count fourteen. A full four students are wearing the correct keikogi, one is not wearing a belt, though, it truly is a simple piece of worn, thin cloth with a tight small knot in it, with the knot turned toward the outside.

Three are wearing short sleeved shirts which are of a darker color, and shorts which appear to be underwear (boxer shorts). Three others are wearing the uwagi (jacket) along with what is probably boxershort or jockey/swimsuit design.

It is a B/W photo so I cannot make out the color of all the obi worn, but other than the one with some type of colored cloth and full judogi, two seem to be wearing darker colored obi.

So there you have it. If it were not important to the founder, it is probably not that important to begin with.

But according to the founder's founded Kodokan Judo school, this is how one should dress for keiko:

The Judogi

The jacket, pants, and belt worn when practicing Judo are collectively known as Judogi (insert MA here, IOW). The jacket and pants are white; the belt varies according to the rank of the wearer.

Beginners, who hold no rank, wear white belts. Boys ranking third through first kyu wear violet belts; adults wear brown. Those who rank from first dan through five dan wear black belts. From sixth through eighth dan the belt has red and white stripes. Ninth dan and above wear a red belt. Holders of sixth dan and above may, however, wear a black belt if they prefer.
******

It would seem that what Kano thought and what the Kodokan thought in his (Kano's) later years mattered little, though at that time there was little if any use of any color other than black and white (some written evidence shows that the brown belt was first used in the Pacific North West of the US in the late twenties or early thirties.

While Kano-sensei was a patriotic man, he was also practical. If you can get the clothing together, whatever that may be, "I will teach you [insert MA here]." He didn't say so and there are a few pics of him wearing the modern keikogi to show how it should look, and some studies of him in dogi for posed phots in kata, I don't think he cared all that much. In fact, all the guys I met coming up who were either from Japan or nisei, had simple instructions for the care of the uniform, as my teacher said: "Wash it in the cold water." Hang to dry two days inside (imagine his accent as he was issei). These instructions kept the dogi the natural color of cotton (a light tan color) and also kept it as new as possible.

I think it was more important how you lived your life and how much you gave to the study of judo (MA).


Mark

PS: Anyway, sorry if my two cents were up a long time ago.:(

Mike Williams
14th June 2002, 08:35
I agree with both Harvey's and MarkF's posts (i.e. what you wear matters little, but if you are going to wear a dogi it had better be white or black).

Having said that, the introduction of blue gis in Judo competition has greatly improved Judo as a spectator sport (and reduced judging errors, I believe), so I guess blue dogis are OK too.

Everything else is retarded. :p

Cheers,

Mike

mushinmaster
14th June 2002, 14:15
Originally posted by MarkF
Well, If your pant is from Dad's zoot suit (with watch fob), your wearing spats on your bare feet, and a big, floppy hat with head band, It may be going too far.

Some get almost as bad:D!!

Laotse
14th June 2002, 22:21
Ban all gis, regardless of color. They are utterly impractical.

mushinmaster
15th June 2002, 09:59
For those practicing the martial way, a dogi does serve a purpose. Look at the name DO-gi.

DO - the way or path
GI - training uniform

Training uniform of the way!

For those who only train to learn how to fight, sure, a dogi is "utterly impractical." However, for those who seek something more in their training, it does serve a purpose.

n2shotokai
15th June 2002, 15:49
We allow beginners to wear loose clothing, but insist on white gi's only, no colors.

For intermediate - white.
For advanced - white.
For instructors - white.

We do not have a school patch, but since 911 I have a small American flag on my sleeve. It will stay there until the gi is worn out.

We had one student (intermediate) who occasionaly would show up with a black bottom and a white top or all black. After being told several times "white only" he did great for about three months and one day he showed up in a blue gi (said he got a great deal on it). What a doofus. I couldn't focus all class, it took all my efforts to keep from laughing. Sensei personaly informed him "white only". Fine for several months, back to black and white, patches were added daily until you could not see the gi for the patches.


Flashy gis that attract attention and are meant to look good certainly take away from this attitude and promote the ego, instead of conquering it...IMHO

Bullseye! Well Mr. ego is no longer with us. he is bouncing from dojo to dojo telling everyone how wonderfull he is and about his secret techniques that he developed. Forgive me but all I can think of is doofus retard. Blue ....... hahahaha ........

Steve Beale

Victor
15th June 2002, 17:19
Personally I'm a white gi only kinda instructor, but achieving Sho Dan the Dan can wear anything they got the 'guts' to wear.

After all if others don't like it, they'll have the opportunity to test their karate out <GRIN>.

Many decades ago one of my instructors had a mother who would make him custom Gi's.

Red, Blue, Cami, Black and White top/black bottoms for judging and a tasteful Paisley Gi (my personal 2nd favorite), with the Denim Gi being Number One.

Heck I'd be glad to turn in my tasteful chartruse day-glo gi for a good Paisley Gi anyday!... Though it would be a handful with the Isshinryu patch!

Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu

TomMarker
17th June 2002, 20:10
I wouldn't mind black pants, as they're easier to keep a clean appearance :) I tend to get a good deal of dirt, grass and blood on mine.

For a recent demo, we went "all out" and got black pants with either red or blue tops. it actually looked pretty slick. And a lot better than those red white and blue striped dogi.

RobNyc
17th June 2002, 22:49
I wouldn't want to ban any Gi color, the colors is for everyone own's preference.

mushinmaster
18th June 2002, 05:44
Originally posted by n2shotokai
We allow beginners to wear loose clothing, but insist on white gi's only, no colors.

For intermediate - white.
For advanced - white.
For instructors - white.

We do not have a school patch, but since 911 I have a small American flag on my sleeve. It will stay there until the gi is worn out.

We had one student (intermediate) who occasionaly would show up with a black bottom and a white top or all black. After being told several times "white only" he did great for about three months and one day he showed up in a blue gi (said he got a great deal on it). What a doofus. I couldn't focus all class, it took all my efforts to keep from laughing. Sensei personaly informed him "white only". Fine for several months, back to black and white, patches were added daily until you could not see the gi for the patches.



Bullseye! Well Mr. ego is no longer with us. he is bouncing from dojo to dojo telling everyone how wonderfull he is and about his secret techniques that he developed. Forgive me but all I can think of is doofus retard. Blue ....... hahahaha ........

Steve Beale

HA! One great example!

kenshorin
30th June 2002, 20:55
Originally posted by mushinmaster

Flashy gis that attract attention and are meant to look good certainly take away from this attitude and promote the ego, instead of conquering it...IMHO

I have seen this a lot. Thats in the dojo we only wear white. I only wear white when I instruct for the same reasons.

That being said, sometimes the colors help for special occasions. Like demonstrations, where a little "flash" isn't a bad thing. I have seen them at tournaments as well, head judges wearing red tops and black bottoms, helping to distinguish the "go to" people. All black is better for outdoors, for cleanliness reasons. So I think some colors can go based on circumstances.