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View Full Version : Technique comparison between Shorinji Kempo and Hanmudo



Audrey Hoo
14th June 2002, 09:37
Onnagashimas.

I'm currently a new student of Hanmudo(korean martial art that's affiliated to hapkido) and I have also just discovered Shorinji Kempo.

I'm wondering if anyone is familiar with both styles, that may be able to give me some insight into this? From what I notice , (and this might really be superficial), the techniques seems by and large similar. Philosophy wise,they seem some what similar -- being balance bewteen of soft and hard techniques, focus on 'ki' meditation. I'm quite curious to see what are the real differences/similarities between these two martial arts, beside their roots.

Thank you very much.

Audrey Hoo

Mäki-Kuutti Vesa
15th June 2002, 11:31
Hello and welcome to the long way to budo.


Personally I have had the possibility to try many different styles of selfdefence or budo (Aikido, Iaido, Ju-jitsu, Judo, Hanmodo -just basics) during my earlier years. Now I have been concentrating in Shorinji Kempo since 1986.

But you asked about the similarities of S.K and Hanmodo. When You look from the technical side they are obvious, when you look for basic ethical principles as beeing a human or morals they are quite near. The pedagogic systems of teaching and the background philosphy are different. There are also differences in basic movements.

I think that the differences or similarities are interresting, to discuss, but the main thing is that:
In order to advance in any style or way of Budo, you have to work through its own system of learning and "learn how to learn" the style.
This is of course if you want a good and functioning way to defend yourself if needed.

To get to know different styles from inside is one way of learning, but it may happen that you dont finally learn anything good enough.

One point is to find some hobby or way of life that is suitable for your personality and physical self, in this meaning studying yourself by trying different styles may be satisfactory.

Good luck in finding what you are looking for.

Audrey Hoo
15th June 2002, 11:49
"In order to advance in any style or way of Budo, you have to work through its own system of learning and "learn how to learn" the style. " :smilejapa

Hi Vesa Mäki-Kuutti,

Thanks for your reply and for your insight into Shorinji Kempo. I agree with you very much in the "learn how to learn" phrase.
I actually started out with Aikido, which is why perhaps, it was quite a 'culture shock' to switch frm a Japanese martial artform to a Korean martial artform, very different style of teaching and learning.

Personally, I'm think I'm still searching for the style and training that would suit me and my personality best, which was why it was really coincidental coming across Shorinji Kempo.

Do you mind if I ask, why you chose Shorinji Kempo as your main martial artform after dabbling with the other forms?

thanks again , cheers, Audrey H.

Mäki-Kuutti Vesa
15th June 2002, 12:19
Hello again.

To answer to your question about why Shorinji Kempo.

I started Shorinji Kempo during studying in University of Jyväskylä as late as 1978 (I was born 1953). I think that this style felt good for my physics because I have a heavy body and am no acrobat. For example Han mo do movements require a little more flexibility from the body that is natural for me. The second reason was that Shorinji Kempo is not a compettion sport, it is for selfdefence and developing yourself more than competition, it a way of life. This is of course same in many forms of budo. The third point was the philosophy of Kongo zen that is quite near to what I think about this world.

Then came of course the quality of teaching awailable and finally those friends I made during practise in our club and later around the world. Much later having my own Branch and working in Finland Shorinji Kempo federation and WSKO.

shugyosha
15th June 2002, 13:07
It seems that both choy yong soul (im not sure of the writing) and So doshin sudied Aikijutsu daito ryu, i read in some books thant the founder of hapkido learn with sokaku for years and from a graping style, add some striking technic when he encounter Tae kyon adept in korea.
For So doshin it is deferent, seems that he first learn jujutsu with his grandfather, then kempo, to finish with aikijutsu.

there are many similarities in this two martial art, not only in form, as one could think beacause both of their founder look for balance between grappling and striking in their style, which was unusual by this time.
philosophy may differ a bit, but Zen teach to take away all duality :)
i was first interested in hapki, but so many time its associated with taekwondo, and philosophie is forgoten.

shorinji kenpo is the only martial art where i have see kenshi read philosophy while training and meditade regulary.
form doesnt matter, spirit is more important id say :)

Audrey Hoo
15th June 2002, 13:39
Hey there Jimi Demi,

Thanks for the post and for the ineteresting link between the founder of hapkido and shorinji kempo.

Actually, Hanmudo is a little different from Hapkido, cos of the combination of different techniques both hard and soft. I believe Hapkido is a harder art form. I've attached a short writeup below from my Sah Bu Nim's(that is, sensei in korean) website just for reading, if you're interested. During training we have also spend quite a long amount meditating. But, yes I agree spirit is more important then physicality!

hi also Vesa Mäki-Kuutti, thank you for sharing your path to Shorinji Kempo. Interestingly, you started Shorinji Kempo at age of 25? And I'm 26 this year :) Also, I'm not keen on competitive martial arts, more for self defense and self reflection. I will perhaps check out the Shorinji Kempo training group here.

cheers,
Audrey H. :smilejapa

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Grandmaster He-Young Kimm,the founder of Hanmudo, has over 45 years of studies and research in traditional and modern Korean martial arts.He has studied under the founder of Hapkido,Grandmaster Ji Han Jae and achieved 9th Dan Black Belt in Hapkido.He also studied Kuk Sul under the founder,Grandmaster Suh In Hyuk and received 8th Dan under him.He also studied other Korean systems like Taekwondo,Kum Do(Korean Swordsmanship),Tang Soo Do,and rare ones like Tae Kyun,Ship Pal Ki, Sun Mu Do,Sundo and Muye Yi Ship Sa Ban under the systems' founders and grandmasters.

Hanmudo technical defensive techniques are based on the Water Principle,Circle Principle, 9 direction movements and natural body movements.Its mental strategy is control of breath and mind,"Yu Shin Kang Kwan Han"(gentle mind strong fist) and the highest level "Mu Shin Mu Kwan" (empty mind empty fist).By being fluid and "gentle",the opponent's strong offense is penetrated and enveloped.The aim of Hanmudo defence is to bring the opponent to be immobilized on the ground where his kicks and punches have no effect,and to lock or choke him out.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

shugyosha
15th June 2002, 22:57
could you put the url of this website?
and other on this martial art please?
:)

Audrey Hoo
17th June 2002, 08:38
Hi there.

k.. my dojang's(or dojo in japanese) website is

http://home4.pacific.net.sg/~hbchua/index

another website i've found helpful which has info on Hanmudo is

http://www-org.usm.edu/~hanmudo/hanmudo.htm

cheers!
Audrey

shugyosha
17th June 2002, 19:35
strange i always thought that the founder of hapkido was choy yon soul
so....er...
whos choy yon soul in this case?

shugyosha
17th June 2002, 22:06
ok, i checked in too books about hapkido on its history:
(hapkido by Scott show and onther book i dont remember the author)
both state that choi yong sul is the founder of hapkido
he went to japan during the ocupation of korea by japanese, to be the servant of sokaku, he stayed with him 30 years untill the death of sokaku (his the student of sokaku who stayed the longest time), then went back too korea, mee some tae kyon expert, add more strikes,
and after naming his style different names, state it as hapkido in 1940. Then when he decided to retire from teaching he passed down the authority to his top student Ji han jae, the president of korean hapkido federation.

reading this books i found other similarities,
the theory of "mind like moon" called "sof eyes" in aikido with is difined as to be aware in all directions.
can be link to the zanshin idea in shorinji kenpo.
althaught i have been told by a master kenshi that Zanshin is just to concentrate on action, mind like moon can be the result of Zanshin.

for the diferencies, you will notice that one dont put fist to hip while punching in shorinji and usage of vertical fist is more comon that horizontal fist (in fact i never seen technics with horizontal fist but a fellow here point to me that it existed in fact)
and there is no kata in hapkido, but there are some in shorinji kenpo,
but, the principe "kumite shutai" state that pair work is essential so
solo form may be practiced in pair too.
well the more i look at hapkido, the less i see diferences with shorinji, i would have more questions about hanmudo but.....

thats a shorinji forum -_-;; errr...

:rolleyes:

Audrey Hoo
18th June 2002, 07:20
Hi jimi Demi interesting notes you have

Audrey Hoo
18th June 2002, 07:27
oops apologies for that post.. i must have pressed the sent button before I was even started!;)

anyway, yes I was saying, its an interesting post. I'm very intrigued by Shorinji Kempo techniques and any information is great.

Do you practice ukemi (breakfalls) in Kempo?

There seems to be a very high priority for breakfalls in Hanmudo. While I was training in Aikido, we did mainly three falls, forward roll, back roll and side "slaming"... in Hanmudo, we do about 6 different types of falling.. and the forward roll is broken into 3 categories, jumping high before rolling, jumping forward before rollling and normal rolling. I couldn't find much info on Breakfalls in Shorinji Kempo, although from video clips on the web, the kenshi seems to know well how to forward roll and side slam...

any thoughts? :smilejapa

Audrey H.

Kimpatsu
18th June 2002, 07:57
Hi, Audrey.
I don't know what you mean by "side slam", but to answer your question, yes, ukemi waza form an important part of Shorinji Kempo training. Mae ukemi (forwards), ushiro ukemi (backwards), yoko ukemi (sideways), and daisharin (cartwheel) are the four basic ukemi waza, with the defence against nage waza (throws) introduced when the more "severe" forms of throwing are introduced.
HTH,

Audrey Hoo
18th June 2002, 11:34
Hi Tony,

Thanks for the info on Shorinji Kempo.

Actually, I'm not sure what is the proper term is for the "slam" --its a slang we use, when we do sort of a forward roll in the air and slam down on the mat to the sideways (either right or left) depending on which hand is caught.

cheers,
Audrey H.

Kimpatsu
18th June 2002, 17:08
Hi, Audrey. (Any relation to Sutton Hoo?) ;)
In Shorinji Kempo, we avoid slang for this very reason; it causes confusion (look at the heat I took for abbreviating Shorinji Kempo as "SK" on this forum).
I'm still not quite sure I understand what you mean; can you be more descriptive or, better yet, supply a link to a video?
TIA,

Audrey Hoo
18th June 2002, 17:27
Hi Tony,

hmm, managed to find a clip ..check this out :)


http://www.aikidoofwestchester.com/aikido_video_clip_1.html

cheers,
Audrey H.
p/s no relation to sutton hoo ;)

Kimpatsu
18th June 2002, 23:48
Hi, Audrey, and thanks for the clip. Hoo's kidding Hoo? :D
That's ordinary nage waza to us. Very impressive in embu, too.
HTH,