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Jody Holeton
15th June 2002, 02:05
Dear all,

I am currently in Utsunomiya, Japan and there are ALOT of karate schools here.

One I have found is Kyokushin Karate!

This is Jon Bluming's old style right?
Full contact?
Lots of hands?
Focus on hard blocks with hard counters?
WInding round house kicks with no toe extensions?

Is this style any good?

tamashi
15th June 2002, 04:55
Kyokushin was discussed not too long ago.

I did a quick search to find the thread:

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10301&highlight=Kyokushin

Hope this is Helpful.

regards,

Paul Thoresen
P.S. Hope that link I pasted in works okay.

Amphinon
17th June 2002, 14:29
I study, teach, live, and will die Kyokushin, OSU!

I recommend at least trying it out. If you don't like it, stop and find a softer art.

Martin H
17th June 2002, 23:19
Originally posted by Jody Holeton

This is Jon Bluming's old style right?

Yes. Also Bluming now teach a style known as Kyokushin budokai. It is NOT the same as the original kyokushinkai he once learned, though.



Full contact?

Yes. Full contact, no protective gloves, bodyarmor or helmets etc.



Lots of hands?

Yes.



Focus on hard blocks with hard counters?

Yes. Although it depends on what you means by "hard" blocks.



WInding round house kicks with no toe extensions?

Yes.
http://sutemi.org/videos/ishi1.mpg



Is this style any good?
I say yes, but Im slightly partial.

Martin Hultgren

tamashi
18th June 2002, 00:31
Jody:
I just re-read your post.
what is a "toe Extension"?

Just curious.

Paul Thoresen

Jody Holeton
18th June 2002, 00:47
Dear all!


Thanks for your replies!

I will go try out Kyokushin Karate out tonite and post my results!


Toe extension: I BELIEVE (maybe not) Kyokushin does this roundhouse kick where the shin and the ball of the foot are used to hit people and things with (bats, peoples legs etc.).
Shin down and ball of the foot are used to strike with!
In TKD and some Thai Kickboxing people POINT the toes for getting head shots and POINT shots.

Kyokushin doesnt sound like a soft art!

Hard counters: Using your blocks AS STRIKES at anything coming your way!

Example: Front kick comes your way, so you drop the hard part of your elbow on it!!

Can I punch people in the face in Kyokushin?

Later--Jody

tamashi
18th June 2002, 22:31
Jody:

No,
not in typical Kumite.
Punching to the face is not allowed.

With no pads, most people would prefer not to be on
either end of that particular exchange :-)

Paul Thoresen

Jody Holeton
21st June 2002, 01:02
Dear all!


It was pretty cool!
I knew most of the forms they were doing!!!! WTH?????

It looked like Olympic TAE KWON DO but with no head gear or chest gear!!!

The instructor got 2nd place in the area AND is really good! Unlike ALOT of Michigan instructors, he actuallly gets out there and fights!


Note!

I did notice SOME knee braces
blood on the uniforms
the age was pretty young BUT the instructor was over 30 and about 5 other guys were older than me
cost is \8000 about $60 American a month

I'm thinking hard about doing that style AND JUDO!!!

I know some of the forms and the kumite rules are rather simple....

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM:)
Can this form of karate prepare me for street conflicts?
Will NOT punching to the face be detrimental?
Will I have to wear a cup?
Will I get in shape?
Will the BREAK me the first chance they get!?!??!?!

tamashi
24th June 2002, 17:06
Jody:

Glad to hear you went to check out the class.
Sounds like you would like a lot more information
on the style. There are several books, lots of videos,
and of course thousands of websites. :-)

Kyokushin grew out of Shotokan, and Goju Ryu, so
80% of the Kata were adapted from those styles. If
you have familiarity with those types of styles, then yes
the forms would look quite familiar to you indeed.

I am anticipating you did not intend the comparison to
Olympic TKD as a slam. So I won’t dwell on that. LOL

It sounds like from your comment that you were previously
in Michigan here in the states. You may be surprised to find
out there is one Kyokushin club in Detroit, but they do not do
a great deal of advertising, and may be difficult to find. ironic.

About $60/ per month sounds pretty reasonable. That is in the
ball park of what is typically charged here in the $tates too. It
depends on the going market rates in Japan I suppose.

The Kumite rules are simple, just remember no grabbing and
no punching to the face. Judo would be a good style to cross
train in, as it has almost the opposite competition rules:
No kicks and no punches, but you can grab as much as you like!

Any good style of karate will help to prepare you for street
conflicts to a point. Since you will get used to contact, you system
will not be so shocked when/if it happens in a self defense scenario.

Not punching to the face can cause some bad habits, but you
will get very used to avoiding kicks to the head so it all works out.
That being said, Kumite is still Kumite, and not a self defense thing.
It is just part of the training, and I am sure you will augment with
Kihon, Kata, Goshin Jitsu, etc. Kyokushin Fighters that switch to
Kickboxing like the K-1 usually have an adjustment time, and need
some extra training.

I would recommend you wear a Cup. With the massive amount of kicks
directed to the legs, accidental shots to the groin are inevitable.
Ask your instructor or senior students to be on the safe side though.

You will absolutely get in shape. It is a very demanding style both
physically, as well as mentally. Eventually there are fitness requirements.

I doubt they will “Break” you the first chance they get. Depends on
dojo, and the instructor. I wait about 3 months before I start breaking my students.
(Thats a joke by the way!). Interestingly enough Dolph
Lundren is a Sandan or yodan in the style, and is famous for his line
“I WILL BREAK YOU” in the movie Rocky IV. Anyway, off on a tangent.

Hope this is helpful for you. Kyokushin is the biggest Knockdown Full Contact fighting style in Japan, followed by “newcomer” SeidoKaiKan.

Best regards,

Paul Thoresen

Jody Holeton
24th June 2002, 23:55
Dear Paul,

You were right I wasn't slamming Kyokushin! Olympic TKD has the same rules and since I have already done it, well it shouldn't be that hard to get into the "swing" of things.

*NOT punching to the face may be a problem!

I also have a stepup on the forms too!!

I'll get started at my new judo dojo here AND then after that has smoothed over (I had to leave a club AND they CALLED my principal!) I will start Kyokushin (God and my bank account willing).


Thanks for the info--Jody


P.S. WHy don't the guys in Detroit advertise? There are kendo people in Detroit, Kyudo (they rent out an old loft), SMR, etc. etc.

WHat is with this private crap?

Jussi Häkkinen
25th June 2002, 00:15
Jody...


As much as olympic TKD has something similar in their rules, I must state (having seen several matches and even tried out by myself under Kyokushinkai rules) that the stuff is _really_ different.

While in olympic TKD most kicks go over the belt, in Kyokushinkai almost all kicks are aimed to the lower part of the body. Thighs, that is. Some "finishing" kicks are made towards the head. And all is knockdown stuff, so all strikes are made with a full force, aiming to overwhelm the opponent.

Groinguard and mouthpiece are worn, but nothing else. So, there is nothing to make the strike easier to take.


I'm not a competitor and I never plan to be - and I don't train Kyokushinkai. However, I just had to state that it's totally different stuff than olympic TKD. However, I encourage you to go for it!

tamashi
26th June 2002, 20:46
Jody:

I think Jussi has already addressed the Olympic TKD issue for me.

I am sure you will adapt to the sparring rules, most people do. The
Dojo will probably do other drills to address this aspect of training.

Regarding advertising and privacy: this probably belongs on a
different thread, but that being said I will offer my $.02. This is not
about the Detroit Dojo specifically, but just a generalized observation.
Some clubs are very “old school” and non-commercial. You find them
by referral from a friend, really looking very hard, or maybe pure luck!
It kind of ensures a very serious and dedicated student from the start
(well it can anyway). I think it is an older model of seeking out serious
Martial Arts instruction and on the other end of the continuum from
the proliferation of McDojo. I am not saying advertising is bad, I am
just saying it is a different approach.

If School A has 100 people sign up in a three month period, but only 10 or
20 of them actually stay for any length of time, that is a great deal of work
put into students who were not able to be retained.
If School B has 10 people seek out the school, and of those 10, maybe 8
stay on as serious students, then the resources of the school are not wasted.
I think this is one of the reasons some schools do not advertise much
(or at all) and stay quite private. If the training is extremely demanding,
there is a certain self selection that will happen as well. I am sure there are
lots of other reasons, but this is the end of my ramblings for the day.

Best of Luck in your training, I hope you enjoy Kyokushin style karate.

Paul Thoresen