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Jody Holeton
28th June 2002, 01:29
Dear all,


One of my students from my English Club was assaulted yesterday.

Has anyone here dealt with this sort of thing before in Japan?

Any advice? I am soooo pissed off!

4 vs. ‚P, etc. etc.

memnoch
3rd July 2002, 20:25
Well, you are located in asia. Maybe you should have him consider a Hard Core Korean like Tae Kwon Do.

Ok, not.

Seriously, more details are required for a recomendation, but as you are in Japan and martial art instruction is not that hard to find their, maybe this student should consider it.

Not TKD though, that was a joke.

Jody Holeton
4th July 2002, 00:09
First let me say there are lots of KARATE schools in the area. In Japan I have mainly seen the push for a sport mentality.

I have spent the last 2 months looking for Kodokan judo, any type of koryu BUT with BAD results.
This area I'm in is NOT a budo paradise!

I did TKD for 5 years, DEPENDING on the instructor it might not be bad for the kid (I prefer he do judo or wrestling or sambo).

Dear Phill,

You notice with all these bad-asses we have on this forum I only get 2 responses to my real-life thread.

The boy is around 12 years old, has a history of being bullied (I have seen his file BUT I cannot read the kanji) and his attack was more of an "hold him while I abuse various parts of his body".

The kid has communication problems, he is the nail that sticks up (hes a bit of a geek, small, skinny, sloucher, etc) and I am told that this bullying behavior is normal.

No one was expelled, the 4 kids were "talked" to (that has ALOT of meaning to these rich kids).

Anybody else dealt with this sort of thing? In JApan or elsewhere?

hyaku
4th July 2002, 02:05
Yes its part of my job to deal with it.

I have had considerable experience being on the receiving end when I was at school. I was placed in the highest class my neighborhood kids in lower. This resulted in about 7 or 8 of them waiting for me everyday. This went on for some time until I hit one and he didn't get back up. My wife was also continually bullied because of her excellent English ability. Most good speakers seek tuition outside schools. Its not a good idea to speak too well even if you can at school.

We have a separate room for those who cannot participate in normal class. Last time I checked the national figures is was about 28.000 pupils throughout all schools.

Needless to say a percentage of these are bullied kids.

Last month I caught two of them ganging up on a boy in class who had got trapped between them in the seat change. I spoke to his form teacher and got him moved. Now I occasionally check with him to make sure he is ok.

The main problem is most of it goes on behind our backs. I don't know about the policies at your school but in a severe case at my schools the offenders are suspended and confined to their homes for one to two weeks. If there is a reoccurrence or they do anything else wrong that is against school policy they are OUT.
We are getting some offenders in to a community service thing now rather than ban them from school. also there is talk of those not trying hard enough will end up cleaning out the river etc.

The educators also seem to range from bullies to sheep too.

I would really like to give them a taste of their own medicine. But nowadays there is no CP policy. We still do it but have to be careful.

I would like to add that although being able to defend yourself comes under the umbrella of MA it is not principaly why Japanese do Budo. The average Japanese couldn't punch their way out of a paper bag and my cat is far more strong willed.

Jody I dont think you are going to find that Budo paradise anywhere. Although adult Kendo groups have increased locally, I still travel over 4 hours return trip on the Kosoku (motorway) to get a decent Kobudo practice.

Regards Hyakutake Colin

Jody Holeton
4th July 2002, 02:45
Thanks for the input!

The kid is in my English Club and I will try and build a rapport with him. When I was younger I did teach karate (aka TKD) for a couple of years BUT I am lacking in a REAL self-defense background.

I could teach the kid (I was bullied up through high school until I started fighting back) some self-defense AND self-offense BUT I feel the kid has more problems than just the bullying. Not athletic, not confident, no self-esteem, a sh@t-magnet is what my father would call him (and me).

It is very troubling.....

Dear Phill,

Pack mentality and social Darwinism. I have faced similar things in America AND Japan. The only thing I find that works is EXTREME AGGRESSION and/or knowing the warning signs and getting away.


I just wish I were back in Michigan with Coach Mark Tripp, BIG BIG Frank, Gary, Mark etc.
Utsunomiya has been a bit of a letdown.

I will keep you all posted!

Amir
4th July 2002, 12:40
Judi

I feel inadequate to answer as a guide / teacher. Though I was in this kid situation :

I skipped a class and so, I was younger then all the other students in high-school. I was not sportive (I think my sports teacher would have been surprised had they known how many hours I will dedicate weekly to sports and M.A. as a 25-30 years old), and had something akin to severe asthma. Further, I wasn't aggressive and just expected other not to interrupt me, though I was willing to defend my own "boundaries". I succeeded in doing it when confronted by other of my age, but those older teenagers have proven to much for me in more then one occasion, one of them broke one of my fingers and during a night in a school camp I drew a knife on another and threatened them when a group tried harassing me.

I didn't practice M.A. at the time and this experience might be one of the reasons I wouldn't stop practicing now-days.

I doubt there are many solutions you could implement. The problem is not only with these other kids, nor only with his ability to defend himself but with his own self-image as well.
A good serious M.A. practice may prove a great solution, but even it will take it’s time. It isn’t the technique this child needs; it’s the mindset, the physical practice and self-confidence. These will prevent another attempt from even beginning.


Amir

memnoch
4th July 2002, 16:26
I've been in that situation, and I found the only thing that helped me was the ability to fight back.

Talking to kids in an American highschool in the 1990's was a joke, so, although I said it as a joke before, I started TKD, almost got into some nasty fights but by being assertive/agressive/daring the kids to take it that last step, I got through highschool.

It sounds like this kid needs a more assertive attitude rather than traditional Budo skills.

It may help this kid if he started a weight program. getting stronger could not hurt him in this situation.

Mitchell

Jeff Hamacher
5th July 2002, 01:36
Colin,

i'm shocked and amazed that your schools have a policy for suspension or expulsion; i thought that every school in japan took the constitution with its "right to an education" clause literally and always kept students in class/school, no matter how awful their behaviour. i wish all japanese schools would set the same kinds of standards. japanese educators just don't seem to understand that one kid acting up in a way that prevents 36 others from learning is a worse rights violation than ejecting that one kid from class so that everyone else can study!

sadly, i don't expect ijime (bullying) to stop any time soon. as usual, the japanese authorities are far better at waxing poetic in policy papers than they are at taking action. students spend far too much unsupervised time at school to effectively prevent on-campus bullying, and i think that at least a few teachers actually agree with allowing bullying to happen. the most important social skill the japanese education system is still trying to teach is conformity, and bullying has historically been overlooked, even treated as an "effective means" of letting students convince other students to go with the flow. on one occasion i managed to stop a bullying situation in one of my classes, but the victim has still ended up getting home schooling and i haven't seen him attend regular classes in months.

when you say corporal punishment, Colin, what exactly do you mean? i frequently treat slightly disruptive students with wristlocks or gentle shoumen strikes with a rolled up textbook, but only if the student understands that i mean it as a "friendly reminder" to stay on track. i don't punch, kick, or actually injure students, and i strongly disagree with such measures; if a student causes that much trouble, i say just suspend them. i never try to discipline students that i know to be real trouble, 'cuz i won't get effective back-up from any of my colleagues.

sorry that i can't offer you any advice, Jody, but the whole issue of discipline in japanese schools generally fails to inspire hope. with any luck, you'll be able to arrive at some solution, but be careful: if you act in a way that your school doesn't condone, you could just be asking for trouble and actually cause the victim more problems.

Jody Holeton
5th July 2002, 01:52
Dear Jeff,

I am already hitting that wall.

I started judo with the high school judo club 3 months ago.

Guess what? It was mainly unsupervised, they had the same CLASS everyday (from the warmups, uchikomi to the randori), no teaching AND everybody was a blackbelt except me.

Did I mention they didn't like gaijin BUT the head teacher did! I got a FREE uniform, a locker and had kids screw with me (as they screw with each other) during practice time.
After dropping 2 of their @sshole students (they NEVER do groundwork) I stopped going and went to a new judo school.

To make a long story short, the head coach made phone calls, had MEETINGS and I had a little chat with my vice-principle about how they wouldn't be my guaranteer for "extracaricular activities".

I watch day and day out how these "kids" police themselves. In their clubs, in their classrooms and EVEN with their teachers. With all the time these teachers spend at work you would think all this problems would be fixed...


I forget, its Japan, they have to have meetings first and get a consensus from EVERYBODY.


Jody is having a BAD time in Japan!

hyaku
5th July 2002, 03:31
Originally posted by Jeff Hamacher

Colin,

i'm shocked and amazed that your schools have a policy for suspension or expulsion; i thought that every school in japan took the constitution with its "right to an education" clause literally and always kept students in class/school, no matter how awful their behaviour. i wish all japanese schools would set the same kinds of standards. japanese educators just don't seem to understand that one kid acting up in a way that prevents 36 others from learning is a worse rights violation than ejecting that one kid from class so that everyone else can study!

My problems are mainly with High school. Junior high present no problems. Its a private high school so we have our own rules but of course have to try and follow national guidlines. But of course their giri kyoiku is over.
................

When you say corporal punishment, Colin, what exactly do you mean? I never try to discipline students that I know to be real trouble, 'cuz i won't get effective back-up from any of my colleagues.

Some of mine are not "slightly disruptive". They range from good ones (one went to Todai last year) to those that can't get into a normal national school. Real borderline cases that have a JHS history of disruption, lack of attendance and study.

I get a few extreme cases each year. I do like to get friendy and physical with them and on the whole seem quite popular. When ones crops up the whole class sits with baited breath to see what the outcome is!

First I try talking of course. I give them a few weeks to settle in and expect them to study and behave (what else). After that its out and seiza in the corridor.

Heres a few. but its a yearly thing i have to deal with.

One who would not sit would not stop talking absolutely refused to fit in. He would move around every few minutes, feet on the desk, talking. I stood him up, a quick oshi dashi and he was out. "He said you cant do this". I said, "But I did it, your out".

I laughed and all the students laughed too. I told staff management that I refused to teach him unless he behaved as he disrupted the whole class.

He returned to the class the next week to behave. Then he left school. He now has a job and still come back just to see me now and again and tell me that he's doing ok.

The second got the same treatment but actually kicked the door back into the room. He left too. There were some family problems there that could not be resolved.

I had some Judobu kids blatantly cheat last year. They got literally got slapped hard. I did check with their form teacher and Judo sensei first.

I had a girl who refused to study last year. She was giving the other teachers hell. When she refused to write I took her pen and offered to write for her. Dug her nails into the back of my fingers! then her ploy was to hide and not attend class. I said thats fine with me. She gets no marks and wont stay the course anyway.
Now she is an average well behaved Ni-nensei

Some of the teachers can be very hard especially Bukatsu. Whatever I do I am never going to be as strict as them.

We had one Kendobu kid visit out-patients. This raised a school enquiry and parents were brought in. Then again we won the all Japan Championships the following year. So methods remain questionable but effective.

This fitting in and the nail sticking out as Jody mentions doesnt work out well for the weak ones but i find it an effective tool for handling the disruptive ones too. They really want to look good in front of everybody.

Your so nice Jeff. I don't roll my text books and its a low strike to komekami with the binder.

Hyakutake Colin

http://www.bunbun.ne.jp/~sword/

Onmitsu
12th July 2002, 17:19
It may help this kid if he started a weight program. getting stronger could not hurt him in this situation.
As much of harda$$ as my ex-marine stepdad could be, one of the best things that he ever did for me was get me started on a wieghtlifting program after the local bully used my head for a little road construction. After 6 weeks of regular wieght lifting I was confident enough to face my tormentor and set things straight. He never bothered me again after that. In my case it really was a confidence thing. Hope my input helps.