Muso/Eishin(?)

[Benjamin Peters]

Can someone explain the connection between Muso Shinden Ryu and Eishin Ryu iai schools? (sorry not an iai person am i - mmm)

[Rennis]

Assuming that by Eishin ryu you mean Muso Jikiden Eishin ryu, the connection basically boils down to them being different branches of the same school. The differences between are, for the most part minor technical variations and the overall curiculum for both ryu is very similar.

Best regards,
Rennis Buchner

[fifthchamber]

Hello Benjamin.
I believe that Rennis has the answer in his post but thougt that I could add a little to it myself here (Although NOT an Iaidoka myself either).
The Shinden Ryu teaches a syllabus that is similar but sufficiently different in performance for the two schools to be seperated in name. This seperation is a recent split however with the Shinden Ryu being formed/revised most recently by Nakayama Hakudo Sensei in 1933 as a split from the Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu.
Both schools have the same source and up until the above headmasters seperation were one school but are taught seperately now depending on whether the 'original' (MJER) teachings are followed or whether the newer forms (Muso Shinden Ryu) are used.
The split came about through Nakayama's belief that he should establish the new school and name to show its distinction from the Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu teachings.
More help can be found under either schools headings at the Koryubooks site here; www.koryu.com/guide/ryuguide.html
HTH...
Abayo

[Rennis]

...........The split came about through Nakayama's belief that he should establish the new school and name to show its distinction from the Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu teachings.

This is a common story one usually hears about Muso Shinden ryu, but it does not seem to be entirely correct. It is often claimed that Nakayama Hakudo changed alot of details in the art he learned and thus decided to change the name of it and create a "new" ryu, but no one seems to be able to state what exactly he changed (the only thing I have even heard suggested was the noto and that was supposedly to put it back in line with how things were done in the old days). Some MJER sensei I have talked and trained with basically told me that MJER and MSR are simply just omote and ura of eachother (of course they don't say which is omote and which is ura). Alot of people don't realize that even the name "Muso Shinden ryu" predates Nakayama Hakudo, so his use of the name was just a continuation of a tradition that seems to have already existed in the Shimomura ha of MJER (BTW - Nakayama also trained in Tanimura ha as well) and not something he came up with on his own to identify his new school (There is a picture of a Muso Shinden ryu densho that predates Nakayama Hakudo in Danzaki's "Iaido - Sono Riai to Shinzui").

More random pot stirrings,
Rennis Buchner