View Full Version : complex scenarios in koryu bujutsu

11th July 2002, 13:57
hello out there !
i wonder if someone can help me with this question. do you know of or train in ryuha that have one or more techniques baed on very elaborate scenarios like beeing at the tea ceremony or just having for example chopsticks at hand. there are some ryuha which at least emphasize certain inherited ceremonies and have special curriculi for behaviour.

thank you very much for your help.


Don Cunningham
11th July 2002, 17:16
I've seen some iaido styles which use a small wooden frame. It was explained to me that this wooden frame represents the small door to the tea room used in chado. I don't know if this was true, but the practitioners used this frame to practice drawing and cutting within the restrictions of the frame/door.

I do know that a very small door is used in traditional tea rooms to force the participants to kneel and enter.

12th July 2002, 13:47
Hi all.
Although I don't personally study the school I am aware of quite a number of Kata in the Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu that are 'themed' around various events in daily life (Or not daily..). In fact I believe that nearly all the Kata are aimed at forming some kind of 'what if' situation response for the user but am not too sure regarding that..
These are the Kta I found for odd situations, many more exist but these are perhaps more unusual; a Suicide assistants technique ("Kaishaku"), Defending and attacking an opponent while in a crowd of seated bystanders ("Ukigumo"), attacking an 'escort' of guards on either side ("Yukizure" and also "Tsuredachi"), one designed to clear a crowd out of the way before attacking an opponent without injuring the crowd ("Sode Surigaeshi"), one for when you are pressed up close to a wall in a confined area (Like a Japanese street I think) where the blade has to be drawn almost vertically out of the saya and Chiburi is close in to the leg and Noto is as vertical as possible("Kabezoe"), and an odd one involving a position under a low shelf or porch where the blade and the body must be kept close to the ground until you move forward to clear the ledge/obstacle and finish the Kata ("Tanashita"). My personal favorite (Nooo...Really?:p ) is "Shinobu" which involves an attack during a dark night and requires the user to lightly tap against the ground to the right to entice the opponent to commit to an attack at that position while the user withdraws the sword they had tapped with and attacks the sound of the opponent as they rush against the diversion....Quite a nice idea and one that is well thought out as dark nights without a cities lights are seriously DARK and sound is a major factor used to detect the enemy...I like it anyway!
The above Bunkai I had read in the MJER book "Flashing steel" by Shimabukuro-san but have also seen the waza performed and feel that the uses are highly likely ones for the moves made in them..No doubt there are many others though..Maybe someone here can put some alternate ideas up on the table?
Bunkai like these are quite an exiting way to learn a reason behind a seemingly useless or dated manuouver and make the method clearer..I enjoy the research into the 'whys' as much as the training itself...
I believe that there are photos of the device Don mentions above in the book "Koryu Bugei Cho" by Osano Jun...A strange looking device that has the measurements in the book...If you are handy with a saw why not?:p

Charles Choi
19th July 2002, 04:45
Hi Ben (nice discussion page),

Hontai Yoshin Ryu Iaijutsu also has in it's curriculum, strategies for crowd parting/drawing/cutting. Other situations are the more like the norm.

Charles Choi

Defending and attacking an opponent while in a crowd of seated bystanders ("Ukigumo"), attacking an 'escort' of guards on either side ("Yukizure" and also "Tsuredachi"), one designed to clear a crowd out of the way before attacking an opponent without injuring the crowd ("Sode Surigaeshi")

John Lindsey
19th July 2002, 05:16

I thought the sword taught within the Hontai Yoshin-ryu was added in the last century, probably around 1920 or so...

Charles Choi
19th July 2002, 05:30
Hi John. Maybe even later. There is no doubt that Hontai Yoshin Ryu has its more recent additions and refinements. Still remaining though, the above principle/concept is taught.

15th September 2002, 12:31

As I understand it HYR Iai was not tought when the 17th soke led the ryu, but has quite recently startet to beeing tought. Before HYR was consentrating on Toyama Ryu, now they put more time in HYR Iai.

Richard Elias
15th September 2002, 19:04
I understand Araki ryu has some techniques for use when haveing tea, and other more domestic situations, Mr. Amdur could tell you more.

Katori ryu has iai kata for being attacked indoors in ones bedroom, as does Shingyoto ryu. Negishi ryu shurikenjutsu also has these, and for when one is lying down, in the dark, or walking down the street and several other situations.

There are also several jujutsu schools that have techniques for being attack, or attacking, in social situations.