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woolston
19th July 2002, 12:26
Could anyone tell me how they vary the teaching/training of Yakusoku Kumite (I am dealing specifically with the seven contained in the Matsubayashi Ryu style of karate).

For instance, how would a beginner differ in their approach and goals to that of a yudansha? Do you teach variations of the ones in Nagamine Sensei's book, etc.?

Many thanks,

Steve Woolston
ENGLAND

Doug Daulton
20th July 2002, 17:37
Originally posted by woolston ... Could anyone tell me how they vary the teaching/training of Yakusoku Kumite (I am dealing specifically with the seven contained in the Matsubayashi Ryu style of karate).

For instance, how would a beginner differ in their approach and goals to that of a yudansha? Do you teach variations of the ones in Nagamine Sensei's book, etc.?Mr. Woolston,

To my thinking, each of the Matsubayashi-ryu yakusoku kumite teach one fundamental principle, of which there are infinite variations. For example, YK1 teaches the principle of <b>ai-uchi</b> (<i>simultaneous striking</i>). This principle is also illustrated and studied in many sword schools. If you are unfamiliar with ai-uchi, it is shown in the final movement of YK1.

The aggressor attacks with tsuki. Once the aggressor commits, the defender counter-punches. Because the defender has allowed the aggressor to commit, he has the advantage of driving inside the aggressor's attack. So committed, the aggressor has little, if any, opportunity to counter the counter. As the defender has inside position, he wins. All of this happens in split-second timing, so to the untrained eye it looks <i>simultaneous</i>. When, in fact, the defender deliberately moves second.

Each of the yakusoku kumite has a similar core principle to teach. This principle is generally illustrated in one of the 3-5 exchanges in the form. The remaining exchanges, while useful training, are less important than identifying and studying this core principle. Once understood, the core principle becomes the foundation for the study of variations.

With this in mind, I feel shodan and below should really focus on the YK patterns as taught by their teachers. While it is OK if they are aware variations are considered later in their study, the student should not explore them until they clearly understand the core principles of all seven. This deeper understanding usually happens around nidan in my experience. I think this is why, as I was taught, yakusoku variations are a requirement for the sandan test and not before.

The study of variation looks for ways to apply the core principle in different scenario. For example, take YK1 and use <i>mae-geri</i> rather than <i>tsuki</i> in the final exchange (or all exchanges for that matter). The principle of <i>ai-uchi</i> is more difficult to apply, but it is there. Also, try YK5 where the defender is in seiza. Keep the same exact foot work pattern, but stay in seiza. You'll learn lots about <b>tai-sabaki</b> (<i>body-shifting</i>). :)

I hope this is useful. On a closing note, these are just my ideas. They are not official dogma from Nagamine O'Sensei, Nagamine Takayoshi Sensei or any other senior Matsubayashi-ryu teacher (Okinawan or other). So, if you find them interesting, play with them. In the end, follow the direction of your teacher.

Regards,

Doug Daulton

PS: I am not sure how far along you are in your studies. So, I assumed you are still in the kyu ranks and answered from there. Please do not take offense if that is not the case.

kusanku
21st July 2002, 05:36
That's a thing about the Yakusoku Kumite, they look so simple, but they go so deep.

After all, he tells us what the seven principles are.It isn't a mystery, but oh, to be able to apply those in spontaneous situations, that is the purpose of the Yakusoku training.

We used to do lots of variations and even some other drills, taken from kata and so forth, but the seven main ones, are really the core of the preparatory kumite training.

They look so simple, too.Some complain that prearranged kumite are contrived, and they are, too, contrived for the purpose of hardwiring those principles so that when you are in a situation, say a life or death one and I fervently hope no one ever is, but it can happen, you won't be at a loss as to how you may respond to save your life.

Those particular Kumite and principles, descend from Motobu, who knew exactly what it was like to have to use karate for real.Fromn Motobu, to Nagamine,to you in his book, or to his students , to us, to our students.

There is plenty in them, as Doug points out, to occupy one for quite some time.

I remember, when my teacher was showing me, time after time, to step forty five into cat stance as you grasp with torite uke and kick with front leg mae geri, it seemd instantaneous, but it wasn't.Or you coulkd punch, or strike. It seemd to me then and it does now, that if one could master that one principle,of dissappearing from in front to the side blind spot of opponent as you control, intercept and counter, you could almost come out ahead every time.

When I think of Shorin ryu, I think of that, and the pine tree whipping in the wind sequence of five techniques in wankan, that seems to me to exemplify the living philosophy of the style, and enable the whipping of a ton of...excuse me, I mean the peaceful meditation on the inner truth that is the purpose of karate:D.For all you people under shodan, you didn't hear that.:D

What's funny is when you got two shorin dudes that both go to forty five on each other, but then, one of the kumite deals with exactly that situation, and its interesting how.

Ah, inner truth.:D

woolston
21st July 2002, 18:47
Each of the yakusoku kumite has a similar core principle to teach. This principle is generally illustrated in one of the 3-5 exchanges in the form. The remaining exchanges, while useful training, are less important than identifying and studying this core principle. Once understood, the core principle becomes the foundation for the study of variations.

With this in mind, I feel shodan and below should really focus on the YK patterns as taught by their teachers. While it is OK if they are aware variations are considered later in their study, the student should not explore them until they clearly understand the core principles of all seven. This deeper understanding usually happens around nidan in my experience. I think this is why, as I was taught, yakusoku variations are a requirement for the sandan test and not before.


Mr Daulton,

These thoughts are very interesting and helpful - thank you. I did get my Nidan in 2000, but having switched to Matsubayashi Ryu from Shotokan after having received Shodan in that particular style I am (as I guess we all are!) still very 'new to the game'.

I will continue my study of the Yakusoku Kumite and hope to grasp the 7 'key points' that Nagamine Sensei has set us.

Respectfully,

Steve Woolston
ENGLAND