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Vision Quest
11th August 2000, 17:21
Greetings, judoka,

I'm doing some research into a karate style whose followers claim that their founder, an American born in 1923, "received his dan ranking in the 1930s at the Osaka Kodakan". His followers also claim that the reason they can't prove it is because "they didn't give rank certificates back then".

Couple questions, since I'm not very familiar with judo:

Is the "Osaka Kodakan" a judo school? If so, is it well-known/respected, etc? Is that the proper name for the school?

Is it plausible that an American boy, who was only 12 years old in the mid-1930's, would be taught judo and also given dan ranking in such a place back then?

If so, how would one verify this? Did the Osaka Kodakan keep records of who they issued dan ranking to? Finally, did they issue certificates of rank at that time?

Thanks in advance for helping me with my research,

Sincerely,

Brian Griffin
11th August 2000, 17:55
Originally posted by Vision Quest

Couple questions, since I'm not very familiar with judo:

Is the "Osaka Kodakan" a judo school? If so, is it well-known/respected, etc? Is that the proper name for the school?

Is it plausible that an American boy, who was only 12 years old in the mid-1930's, would be taught judo and also given dan ranking in such a place back then?

If so, how would one verify this? Did the Osaka Kodakan keep records of who they issued dan ranking to? Finally, did they issue certificates of rank at that time?

(1) Never heard of the "Osaka Kodakan" -- are you sure it's a Judo school? You may be thinking of the "Kodokan" which is in Tokyo. I'm sure there are lots of dojo in Osaka; maybe even one called Kodakan.

(2) 12 year olds don't get black belts in Judo. Lots of 15 year olds have done so, however. Especially if they're attending a Japanese high school. You should be able to verify his school attendance at a high school in the Osaka area.

(3) Japanese tend to keep meticulous records. They also issue certificates for practically everything. Always have. Even in the '30s.
Dan-ranks would probably be registered with the Kodokan or Butokukai directly, or at least with the local yudanshakai. You might begin by inquiring with the Kodokan & the All-Japan Judo Federation.

Vision Quest
11th August 2000, 18:28
Originally posted by Brian Griffin
(1) Never heard of the "Osaka Kodakan" -- are you sure it's a Judo school? You may be thinking of the "Kodokan" which is in Tokyo. I'm sure there are lots of dojo in Osaka; maybe even one called Kodakan.[/B]
Thanks, Brian. I'll admit that I know little about judo, I have heard of "Kodakan Judo" and hence thought there might be a connection. The claims are at the following website, is there anything there that would be a clue to verifying if this was judo or something else? Note the specific reference to this person getting "dan ranking" in Judo.

http://user.mc.net/~hugh/Durant.htm

Thanks,

Brian Griffin
11th August 2000, 20:25
Originally posted by Vision Quest
...I have heard of "Kodakan Judo"... Note the specific reference to this person getting "dan ranking" in Judo.

That's _Kodokan_ Judo -- not "Kodakan."
I went to the site you mentioned & saw the following:

from website http://user.mc.net/~hugh/Durant.htm
Master Durant received his Dan Ranking in the 1930s at the Osaka Kodakan. His registration number in Karate was twelve. He resided in Osaka fourteen years where he attained Dan rankings in Aiki Jutsu, Kobudo, Aiki-Do, as well as Judo.
Sounds to me like his _karate_ dan registration #12 was issued at the "Osaka Kodakan" and that he eventually studied [a-bunch-of-stuff], and Judo as well. You can check on his Judo rank in the manner I previously suggested. Good luck tracking down the other stuff. If he trained in Aikijujutsu in the '30s, he'd have to have trained under Takeda Sogaku (who kept scrupulous records--check his eimeiroku for this guy's name--fat chance!) or one of Takeda's licensed students (Ueshiba, Hisa, Horikawa etc.) Yes, they all kept records AND issued certificates. Ask Mr. Pranin for help.

One other thing--

Ueshiba called what he was teaching "Daito Ryu" well into the '30s. The name "Aikido" din't come into use until around '45 or so. People like Mochizuki & Tomiki who trained w/ Ueshiba in the '30s got certificates in aikijujutsu. I don't know if he was even using -dan- ranks back then.

Joseph Svinth
11th August 2000, 20:25
Before WWII, there was an English-language newspaper called the Osaka Mainichi. It is not available in the US or Britain, so far as I can tell, but is probably available in Tokyo and Osaka. Anyway, the English-language editor during the 1930s was a Spokane Kibei named Welly Shibata, and as he wrote about boxing, judo, and kendo for the Japanese-American Courier in Seattle, I would guess he would have written about similar topics in Japan.

Also, ANY male attending high school in Japan during the 1930s probably received judo or kendo instruction in his PE classes. Shodan grading at graduation was quite common. So what you have to do is check the Osaka high school records. Foreign students were rare enough that this shouldn't be too hard, but you're going to need a spy on the ground to make it happen. Immigration records would of course show dates of entry and exit, both in Japan and the United States.

BTW, Osaka had some excellent judo schools -- Taro Miyake, for example, was from Osaka originally.

All Kodokan grades issued in Japan are registered, but you need some connections to get an answer back in your lifetime. I'm not sure where to get prewar Butokukai grades. Technical standards were similar to 2-dan, and identical above that, but in general the Butokukai was 1) a little more nationalistic than the Kodokan and 2) put more emphasis on newaza.

MarkF
12th August 2000, 09:34
This may or may not have anthing to do with this post, but there is a series of reprinted letters by Sarah Mayer of her stay in Japan and her study of judo there. I thought it would be interesting as she did get her dan grade in Kyoto, I believe, and she did some judo as well in Osaka. The article(s) are located at: http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsframe.htm . It is in four parts and does intimate how difficult it was to grade a black belt. Much of this may be because of her gender, but it is anything other than an aside for one to get his/her dan ranking anywhere. Judo is Kodokan judo.

Sroll down and you will see Special Section: "Judo Training in Japan before WWII," or something close. At any rate, it is a good read whether it relates here or not.