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hobbitbob
10th August 2002, 06:55
Hello all!
I've just begun studying Shorinjiryu Karate-do with Sensei Shunji Watanabe in Owings Mills. The basics are quite diffferent from what I haev been accustomed to in Shotokan, and I am curious to know if any members on this forum have any knowledge about the founder (Kori Hisataka) or the particulars of this style? I know that Hisataka sensei was a student of Kyan Chotoku, but that seems to be where the "history" section of most webpages stops.
All in all, its kind of odd to be a complete beginner again, but also quite worth it!
Robert L. Welch
Baltimore, Md.

MarkF
10th August 2002, 11:36
Have you tried the Shorinji Kempo forum a little further down on the index page? You might find something there, but they also post here, too.

Just a thought.


Mark

Yamantaka
10th August 2002, 14:29
Originally posted by MarkF
Have you tried the Shorinji Kempo forum a little further down on the index page? You might find something there, but they also post here, too.
Just a thought.
Mark

YAMANTAKA : Uh..Mark San, he's asking about SHORINJI RYU KARATE DO, not SHORINJI KEMPO. (Two different arts you know...)
Best

Tatsu
10th August 2002, 23:21
Originally posted by Yamantaka


YAMANTAKA : Uh..Mark San, he's asking about SHORINJI RYU KARATE DO, not SHORINJI KEMPO. (Two different arts you know...)
Best

Haha no doubt! Doshin So's Shorinji Kempo is a Japanese Zen Buddhist dealie. Chotoku Kyan's Shorinji KarateDo, is a form of Okinawan Shorin Ryu. There are plenty of sites about Shorin and Shorinji Ryu. The main difference between the Shorin and Shorinji styles is the latter's use of a vertical or standing fist. Chotoku Kyan actually used a 3/4 fist, but many Shorinji practitioners use a completely vertical fist. Bye bye....

Bustillo, A.
13th August 2002, 10:33
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MarkF
[B]Have you tried the Shorinji Kempo forum a little further down on the index page? You might find something there, but they also post here, too.
Just a thought.


A.B. responds:
There are more than a few differences between Kyan's karate, Doshin So's shorinji KEmpo and judo.

Jussi Häkkinen
13th August 2002, 11:13
You might want to check the http://www.seibukan.org -webpage for Kyan Chotoku's personal history. Kori Hisataka's Shorinji-Ryu Kenkokan has also been altered to certain amount by his son, Masayuki Hisataka.

28th August 2002, 02:19
Originally posted by Bustillo, A.

A.B. responds:
There are more than a few differences between Kyan's karate, Doshin So's shorinji KEmpo and judo.



How enlightening.:rolleyes:



Here are some links that give a detailed history of the style.

http://kentokukan.dezines.com/index.html

http://www.shorinjiryu.nq.nu/kori.html

http://www.shindo.de/uk/s_karatedo.htm

http://www.fightingarts.com/learning/biographies/karate/hisataka.shtml

http://www.kenkokan.ch/events/japan02.html

Daruma
28th August 2002, 10:57
:rolleyes: Sigh :rolleyes:

Bustillo, A.
28th August 2002, 12:32
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Robert Rousselot
[B]
How enlightening.:rolleyes:



AB. responds,
Thank you Robert.

CEB
28th August 2002, 14:37
Is Shorinji Ryu is supposed to be Kyan's style? Then what Suknaihayshi Ryu or Suknaihayshi Shorin Ryu? I thought that is what Kyan style was called.

Richard Kim taught a style I believe he called Shorinji Ryu Karate-Do. Is this from Kyan's line?

Thanks for your support.

Sochin
28th August 2002, 20:07
Sensei Kim was trained in many arts and included the best of each into his Shorin-ji.

His strongest influenses were Yoshida Kotaro and Sokaku Takeda (Daito Ryu).

His karate training included a long stay with a man named Arikaki (Hawaii?) a student of Yabu Kentsu.

His classical karate in his seminars always included some boxing tips and some grappling stuff as "expressions" of the classical moves.

Therefore I think his Shorin-ji was his token of respect for the early founders of martial arts rather than a direct claim to any lineage.

Jussi Häkkinen
28th August 2002, 21:32
CEB: "Sukunaihayashi" is an alternative way to pronounce "Shorin", indicating a certain way to write "shorin". That particular way is the same that is used in "Shaolin" in chinese. The way to write "sho" -character varies among several styles, maybe because of oral passage of information in old days - practically all "shorin" -styles use the name to refer to Shaolin-temple.

There are two styles (and their spinoffs) that come straight from Kyan Chotoku's Shorin-ryu/shorinji-ryu -tradition. Other is Joen Nagazato's Okinawan Shorinji-Ryu and Zenryo Shimabukuro's (now headed by Zenpo Shimabukuro, Zenryo Shimabukuro's son) Shorin-Ryu Seibukan Karate-Do. Shimabukuro stayed a long time as Kyan's personal student and in many sources has been stated to be his "main student". Both schools are dedicated in maintaining Kyan Chotoku's style as it was taught to them.

Shorinji-Ryu Kenkokan (what the the thread starter wanted to ask about) is a style founded by another one of Chotoku Kyan's students, Kori Hisataka. However, Hisataka also had other other teachers than Kyan. There also is noticeable alteration of kata when compared to Shimabukuro's and Nagazato's kata.

Ginko
28th August 2002, 21:46
Some other interpretations of Kyan's lineaege include:

The Zentokukai:
www.zentokukai.com

North American Seibukan:
www.zenryokan.com

Chintokan:
www.chintokan.com

I hope this helps,

Jay Setser

2nd September 2002, 23:37
Originally posted by Sochin
Sensei Kim was trained in many arts and included the best of each into his Shorin-ji.

His strongest influenses were Yoshida Kotaro and Sokaku Takeda (Daito Ryu).

His karate training included a long stay with a man named Arikaki (Hawaii?) a student of Yabu Kentsu.

His classical karate in his seminars always included some boxing tips and some grappling stuff as "expressions" of the classical moves.

Therefore I think his Shorin-ji was his token of respect for the early founders of martial arts rather than a direct claim to any lineage.


I have also heard that Kinjo Hiroshi was also one of Mr. Kim's main instructors. Is that true?

Sochin
3rd September 2002, 02:42
Hi Robert,

I was not a confidant of Sensei Kim's that's for sure but (aside from exact dates) I believeI have the broader facts (if not the flavor) of his training history...

He crossed paths (if not hands) with many names from the early / modernn history of Japanese / Chinese martial arts.

Some time after 1939 he stidied with Yabu Kentsu, Kenichi Sawai, (student of Kanryo Higaonna but most of his training was under Ankoh Yatsuni Itosu of Shuri). His weapons training was with Chosin Chibana.

It is mentioned he "met" the noted karate historian Kinjo Hiroshi and they are pictured together commemorating Sensei Kim's Yondan ranking (1940, I believe). Further details of their relationship are unknown to me but Mr. Pat McCarthy has details on his site, I believe.

It was 1945 that Sensei Kim met and began training under Yoshida Kotaro, the man he considers to be his main instructor.

Sorry, that's it for me, :)

3rd September 2002, 02:53
Actually, it was Pat McCarthy that mentioned that Mr. Kim was a student of Mr. Kinjo's and even something to the effect that he was married to Mr. Kinjo's daughter for a brief time. Based on that I thought the Mr. Kim was a close student of Mr. Kinjo's.