View Full Version : Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu

J. Ribot
16th August 2000, 20:59
Greetings to all,

It is my observation , that there seems to be a quite noticable difference between the techniques performed by Sugino Sensei and his students to that of master teacher Otake Sensei and the students of the honbu. Although in the grand scheme of things the waza may in fact be the same, Otake Sensei performs his waza with a different intent.

Sugino Sensei's technique seem to be more asthetically pleasing to the eye while Otake's version gives the sensation of combat authenticity. Of corse this is just a personal observation and opinion. Perhaps this is due to the formers advanced age. The tapes I have on him demenstrate his advanced age.

I'm just grasping at straws here. Is there any one out there that can give a more concrete answer? All opinions are welcomed.

Thank You,

J. Ribot

17th August 2000, 14:42

There is a probable reason why Otake Sensei's tecniques are/look different then Sugino Sensei's. That reason is as follows:

When a student aquires sufficient skill, they will probably have there own interpritation of any one tecnique. There is normally some leway given by teachers as no one wants to produce carbon copy's of themselves...and its probably impossible to do so anyway given peoples different body's, thought processes and the like.

Anyway I hope that shed some light on the topic.

17th August 2000, 18:08
It's a slow day at work, so...

There are a couple of big reasons. First, Sugino learned his KSR from an earlier headmaster/teacher than Otake, so that by the time Otake was learning it, interpretations had likely changed. Second, it has been close to 80 years since Sugino learned KSR, so there has undoubtedly been quite a bit of drift in both the main line and the Sugino-ha.

Peter Boylan

J. Ribot
17th August 2000, 19:45
Thank you both for your replies,they helped some what satisfy questions I had.


J. Ribot

22nd August 2000, 06:47
Please excuse my ignorance but I thought I'd add this somewhat relevant question into the thread. I've seen some and participated in some seminars of TSKSR under Sugawara-ha. How does the lineage go from Otake Sensei, Sugino Sensei and Sugawara Sensei? I've often heard of Sugino Sensei being referred to as deceased (the late Sugino-Sensei) so your mentioning of him confuses me. Is he still alive and teaching? Thanks.

Jesse Pelayo

Fredrik Blom
22nd August 2000, 10:09
I will probably be corrected faster than I manage to type this, but I will at least add a number to my post-ratio :)

As I understand it, Sugino-ha is parallell to main-line (Otake Shihan), i.e. Yoshio Sugino "departed" from the main line before Otake shihan "took over". Yoshio Sugino died a couple of years ago and the dojo is now headed by his son. Most people refers to the late Sugino sensei though, as he has been seen in several demonstrations and videos.

Sugawara sensei is a descendatn from Otake shihan as I understand it. There has been some discussion about this (and the unavoidable "who's legit and who's not" discussion) on the Iaido mailing list. Try a search in the archives for that mailing list (http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/archives/iaido-l.html)...

(Thinking of it, it must have been talked about here to, or rather I know it has been, but it was some time ago as I recall. You might as well search the archives of this forum too)...

/Fredrik Blom

Scott Laking
27th August 2000, 10:12
Is it Sugawara or Suguwara? I'm not sure if the man you are refering to is the same man I'm thinking of. Is he teaching in the U.S. now? If it is the same man, than I've heard about him from Otake sensei. He was a student of his at the Chiba hombu and has broken off. Now teaching Katori for a living in the States. He'd better look out for the you know what! (sorry, inside joke).
Hope this is helpful.

Richard A Tolson
27th August 2000, 20:35
Your Dad has told me you have quite a task ahead of you with the SGRBJ and SGR Jujutsu. Good luck!
Gee, could the "you know what" be all the deities you scorn when you break your keppan? :)

Adam Young
28th August 2000, 05:05
Originally posted by Scott Laking
Is it Sugawara or Suguwara?

Is he in Kansas now? Or California?

Scott Laking
28th August 2000, 10:10
Originally posted by Richard A Tolson
Gee, could the "you know what" be all the deities you scorn when you break your keppan? :)
Yes Sir. :)
The job ahead of me with Sekiguchi Ryu is quite overwhelming. I was already doing Shooto, Aikido, Nippon Karate Kenpo, Sekiguchi Batto, Katori Shinto Ryu, and Chinese Wu Shu! You guys might hear in the news about an American whose brain exploded in Sakai Japan from over load! Please wish me luck.
As for Sugawara, Dad probably knows. I wont see Otake sensei for another two weeks.

[Edited by Scott Laking on 08-28-2000 at 04:14 AM]

Adam Young
29th August 2000, 01:46
I was informed privately that Sugawara Tetsutaka is still based in Machida-shi, travelling to the US to teach on a yearly basis.

Hm. Didn't know that.

So there ya go.

Scott, we haven't met yet. Are you planning on coming to Narita on the 9th? That's my last day.

Scott Laking
1st September 2000, 17:09

Scott, we haven't met yet. Are you planning on coming to Narita on the 9th? That's my last day.

Adam I wish I could. I'm leaving for Singapore and the U.S. on the 4th and won't be back till the 17th. I plan on swinging by to visit Otake sensei then. Will you be coming back?
I didn't know that about Sugawara. I thought he had moved to the States.
I see some are talking about Sugino and Otake here. I think "recognized" and "qualified" are different when it comes to teaching Sinto Ryu. I've never seen Sugino sensei's technique (but would like to). As for as who is "recognized" to teach Shinto ryu, it's the same for any style, ask the Soke. But then again politics are politics. I guess I wouldn't want anyone to ask Saruta if I'm recognized to teach Ryu Sei Ken! (oops)
Keep your uwagi sweaty everyone!