What's under your hakama?

[ebachta]

A curious title, I know, but I'm serious. When I first put on hakama in the Konan daigaku Kendo club in Kobe, Japan, my sempai showed me how to do it sans pants, like everyone else in the group. But, now I'm back in the US and the guys at my Shinkendo club put on pants and an obi underneath their hakama. It just doesn't feel natural to me so I stick with the old method, but I was wondering in general how many do it one way vs. the other. I'm also curious what the traditional method is.

[gendzwil]

You need 3 options - pants, underwear or nothing. Traditional is nothing, although anyone that does any rolling around tends to wear something. I like underwear myself, for hygiene and also safety. Once upon a time when I used to go commando, certain parts wer swinging up as my opponent's shinai was coming down - let's just say it was an experience I don't care to repeat.

[David T Anderson]

Normally I go with a pair of light poly b-ball shorts, or a pair of boxer-briefs if the shorts are in the wash or I forget.

This is for Aikido...ukemi can get a little revealing if you go commando, and I find regular gi pants too bulky under the hakama.

[ebachta]

:eek: Yipes, I didn't think that one would wear absolutely nothing underneath. I keep my underwear on.

[hyaku]

Fundoshi of course. Quite colourful and fashionable.

http://homepage1.nifty.com/koshifumi/english1.html

Hyakutake Colin

[fifthchamber]

Tradition are understood through the loincloth
.....Damn right! Calvin Klein has NOTHING on fundoshi! Years of quality use and it shows in the gleam in the wearers eyes!
Seriously though....Does anyone know of a place to buy Ecchu fundoshi in English? The site listed by Hyakutake-san has a few links but all are Japanese and I can't seem to get through em'...My local M&S shop assistant just looked blank when I asked her for them...Some people eh? No culture...THATS the real problem with the world these days.
As regards the question I wear boxers usually...I was told in Kendo that one should not wear trousers under the Hakama although I had seen that style in Aikido previously and was following it...Hence the 'being told not to'...It now feels awkward to do so and far less 'breathable' IMHO.
Ben.

[David T Anderson]

Originally posted by hyaku
Fundoshi of course. Quite colourful and fashionable.

http://homepage1.nifty.com/koshifumi/english1.html



Y'know, we can laugh about this, but Koshinaka-san has a point. We can't really understand what it is to wear ethnic or national costume and see our bodies in a different way until we 'get' the underwear too. One of the best explorations of ethnographic theory I ever read was on a S-F usenet group discussing what kind of underwear Elves wore. Maybe you had to be there, but it was fascinating, and brought up all kinds of interesting points about culture, body image, sexuality and status, etc.

I for one would not mind giving fundoshi a try, if I could get the authentic thing. I also wouldn't mind finding some han-juban that cost less than an arm and a leg too [ie. under US$20 or so...]. My dojo gets chilly in the winter, and wearing a t-shirt under my gi top just bugs me.

[Jim_Jude]

"Does anyone know of a place to buy Ecchu fundoshi in English?"

You should find a seamstress in your area, & have her make some for you. I'm sure they wouldn't run more than $10 a piece even hand made. If you bought 5 or 10 of them, it'd be a deal.

[Jeff Hamacher]

the rule with my jo group is koshita ("pants") or something like them. my sempai admit to cheating during the summer months by wearing their training gear to and from class, but i always change at the dojo so i don't really have that option.

an interesting tangent from this discussion (for those arts that don't include hakama in their gear) is whether you go commando or don underpants. some judoka acquaintances insist that it's commando by tradition, yet most japanese leave their boxers on. after a couple of years of aikido, i switched to commando mode and never looked back. i just kept that up even after i stopped aikido and began jo.

for reference, David, i have a couple of "undergarments" like what you want that are made of thin cotton. they run about 3,000 yen a pop (and probably not much cheaper than $40CDN in the Great White North), but they're great for providing just a little extra heat in winter. believe me, we train regularly in an elementary school gym and in the middle of january the interior air temperature can get close to freezing!

[gmellis]

For all your oyaji-wear needs:
http://www.asahi-jc.com/catalog.htm

[fifthchamber]

Greg..."Timmmmmmmyyyyy.........."
Thanks for the website...Perfect.
Take care all.

[David T Anderson]

Originally posted by Jeff Hamacher
David, i have a couple of "undergarments" like what you want that are made of thin cotton. they run about 3,000 yen a pop (and probably not much cheaper than $40CDN in the Great White North), but they're great for providing just a little extra heat in winter. believe me, we train regularly in an elementary school gym and in the middle of january the interior air temperature can get close to freezing!

Thanks for the info Jeff -- my Aikido dojo is a church hall where the heat is kept very low, esp. in winter as a cost-saving function, and can be damned chilly on Saturday mornings.

I think what I'll probably do is buy a single hanjuban off Ebay and get a lady-friend of mine to run up a couple of copies in cheap cotton. The more authentic the better -- I don't want to be wearing something half-baked and stupid-looking.

[David T Anderson]

Originally posted by gmellis
For all your oyaji-wear needs:
http://www.asahi-jc.com/catalog.htm

Good site! Thanks Greg...

Interesting to see that Japanese schoolgirl outfits are available here as well as kimono. I have a few friends who will be quite excited by this....

[Andy Watson]

Quote "You need 3 options - pants, underwear or nothing. Traditional is nothing,"

I have also met people who believe that nout (that's nothing to you guys in the colonies) is the most traditional. However, for HAKAMA (not judo/karate gi) surely underwear is the most traditional. Whenever I see the line drawings/wood block drawings of samurai getting dressed into armour or otherwise they are always wearing underwear.

Any thoughts?