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Goju-Ryu
23rd September 2002, 08:42
Hi everybody!

I'd like to see here some comments about training with weights on your fists and/or legs...

Will it make you stronger? Will it make you faster? Will it make you stronger and faster? Are there any disavantages?

Thanks in advance! ;)

Rogier
23rd September 2002, 11:45
well I sometimes train with weight around my wrist and after doing that for sometime your arms start to feel tired... when you take them of it feels like your arms are floating and when you start again without the weights you certainly move a lot faster..

I started with that not to long ago... maybe someone can tell us what the long term consequences are???

Harry Cook
23rd September 2002, 12:03
You asked if there any disadvantages. There are if you train too fast. You can damage your joints, tear muscles, tendons, ligaments etc by over extending the limb at speed, so if you are going to use ankle/fist weights then do so slowly. Also if the weight comes off you can injure anyone in the vicinity. Many years lost control over some tetsu geta by trying to kick too fast and purely by luck no one in the dojo was hurt. My instructors observations about my lack of intelligence, technique, knot tying ability however have stayed with me since then.
Yours,
Harry Cook

Rogier
23rd September 2002, 14:15
I've gotta agree with Harry... safety if very important make sure that the weight don't come off unless you want them too.

Also the point he made about injuries... one of the most important things about training with weights is that you are focussed and that your control of punches and kicks is good.

When you start to get tired the level of your focus and control usually starts to drop... that is a good point to take a rest or take the weights of..

Sochin
23rd September 2002, 15:55
This was a big fad in the late '70s, and many folks did real damage to elbows and knees when the inertia of the weight hyperextended their joints just a little but over time it tore them up.

I think the rubber bands give the same effect without the danger because the pressure is back into the body, not swinging away from it.

The other thing I've noticed about weight lifting: I've had a student or two who put in their 3 or 4 years and had just developed a real "snap" in their punches, not just a fast push. Then they started to lift which demands a strong concerted push into the weight. All snap disappeared from their punches. So, stronger muscles can move faster but theywon't unless you are careful to keep up your snap training while lifting.

Goju Man
23rd September 2002, 16:36
I agree with Harry and Ted. If you're going to use ankle and leg weights, you cannot try to do full extension and speed. I like the bands also. There are manufacturers of such bands to be used for kicking and for punching. Ringside makes a "shadowboxer" which is a small vest with the straps for punching. I like the weight vest. It gives you added weight for the whole body, which will help your kicks and stances. If you're going to use free weights, you need to be very specific to what you're looking for, ie dumbell presses for chest, rotating the dunbells in your motion. Also, it needs to be done with lighter weight and more of an explosive pressing movement.

Tatsu
24th September 2002, 09:24
Joint and ligamental damage can occur as a result of striking training done with weights. If you want to gain speed and strength in your strikes practice on a heavy bag, double-ended ball and focus mits or pads. Proper makiwara training also helps. If you want truly increased velocity and power in your strikes then supplementing your MAs training with weightlifting or plyometrics will give you good results. Instead of slow contraction and relaxation in your lifting movement use a medium to fast pace, with control, and make sure the weight isn't too much for you to handle.

Only rest 30 secs. between sets and while resting stretch the muscle group you are working on. This will increase the range of motion in the area you are working (especially legs and arms) and will help you to increse your punching speed by allowing for a more "relaxed" muscle. You will notice that many power lifters who use quick short movements have good fast fatiguable muscle movement (speed and "ups"), but lack flexibility in range of motion. Their muscles have contracted and effected overall limberness. That's because they rarely, if ever, stretch.

Try to do one warm-up set with each new muscle group you work, and 3 sets of 10-12 repetitions. As you gain strength the weight can be increased. Instead of doing a set number of reps, at the advanced level you can work on doing a maximum of 6-8 reps with a heavier weight. Go until you can't complete even one more rep then rest 30 seconds. Don't rush through it, but do this with some speed.

I've always been not slow, but since I've added weightlifting to my training I'm getting quicker and stronger everyday. I've maintained and increased flexibilty by stretching before and after each set. Muscles are more easily stretched when they are "warmed up" anyway. Hope this helps. Safe training...

Bustillo, A.
24th September 2002, 12:18
Years ago, ankle weights for kicking were highly recommended amd it was common for us to use the iron getas too. However, one must be careful to not spend so much time drilling with ankle weights because we adjust and shift our movements for the drill. Thus, you bring secondary muscle groups in to play--too much so-- and you may develop bad habits.

Rogier
24th September 2002, 12:24
so is it correct to say that there are advantages if you do not do it too frequently??

arnie
29th September 2002, 08:12
Keeping your technique and strength training separate can have it's good sides.

You've payed too much (in time, energy...) for those motor programmes you've installed in your nervous system, to risk messing them up with weight training that's too similar.

When you train with weights, it's quite enough to just train regular weight training, perhaps changing the focus (strenght, endurance, explosivity...) now and again for greater effect.

You don't need to imitate the movements from your kicking/punching etc, in fact it may be counterproductive to do so.

Think of it this way: one day you go to the gym and build your muscles, the next day to the dojo and learn how to use them :-)

If you however feel it really gives you something, then I'd go for the slow version, this is just a guess, but I don't think the slow motion will mess up your motor programmes.

Anyhow, that's my view on this subject.

Countless happy training hours to all,

Ari Lappinen