View Full Version : Teachers terms?

26th September 2002, 17:33
I was wondering if anyone could give a description of these Japansese terms as they relate to the martial arts.
Soke dai,
These 4 are probably the most misused terms in the Japanese derived arts. So is Sempai but I understand that sempai is not a title but more like saying older brother.

Ian Remi
26th September 2002, 18:21
Re: Shihan, Sensei.. (http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9612&L=iaido-l&D=0&P=10461) - posted by Neil Gendzwill
Re: Shihan X Hanshi (http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9808&L=iaido-l&D=0&m=7443&P=8035) - posted by Meik Skoss
Re: Shihan X Hanshi (http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9808&L=iaido-l&D=0&m=7443&P=8431) - posted by Karl Friday
Re: Shihan X Hanshi (http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9808&L=iaido-l&D=0&m=7443&P=8989) - posted by Meik Skoss

Soke: Historical Incarnations of a Title and its Entitlements (http://koryu.com/library/wbodiford1.html) by William M. Bodiford

26th September 2002, 20:51
three to go.

Ian Remi
27th September 2002, 12:57
Mr. Bodiford's article did not help? ;)

Two to go, but really only one. "Dai" can usually mean big, important, etc... "Soke Dai" = Big Head Honcho Soke? LOL. I've never really heard that term in budo...

27th September 2002, 16:34
I didn't see the last one. And yes it does help. Now if someone could explain Shidoshi I would be happy. The only place I really see it is neo-ninjutsu is it a real term used else where.

Adam Young
27th September 2002, 18:32
"Dai" can usually mean big, important, etc... True, but then it usually prefaces the word it is appended to. In this context, x-dai usually refers to the next in line, thus soke-dai should be the person next in line to be soke. I am more used to seeing the term shihan-dai, however.

That saidr, you can never know how people over here will use Japanese words they probably lifted from ads in Black Belt Mag. Maybe in Jimmy Joe Bob's classical school of Ass-Whup Ryu, "soke-dai" does mean Big Head Honcho Soke. Don't make it right, tho'.....

27th September 2002, 19:05
Soke dai is actually Assistant to the headmaster - from dairi

Dai Soke would be Great Soke, how long before one of these pops up?

Soke is the head of a family Ryuha.

Shidoshi I am not sure but I think it is a term specifically of Ninjutsu, (Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinenkan et all)

George Kohler
27th September 2002, 19:15
Originally posted by Daruma
Shidoshi I am not sure but I think it is a term specifically of Ninjutsu, (Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinenkan et all)

Just for clarification,

Genbukan does not use shidoshi. The terms that we use is renshi, kyoshi, jun-shihan, shihan, and shihan-cho.

Adam Young
27th September 2002, 21:01
Soke dai is actually Assistant to the headmaster - from dairi But doesn't dairi indicate, not so much an assistant, but an alternate or substitute (or, more directly, a representative)?

If so, then the soke-dai would be the "alternate soke," which would generally indicate the next in line. The concept, as I understand it, is that if the current soke is no longer in the picture (because of death, repudiation or whatever), the soke-dai is the person that fills that role. In another context, shacho-dai (if such a term even exists) would indicate a president in waiting, and not an "assistant to the president." True they could, in practice, fill the role of an assistant, but the title, taken literally, means something else.

That is my take on it anyway. My Japanese is becoming pretty sketchy, so I will accept criticism of this analysis. But you gotta tell me why! ;)

28th September 2002, 11:57
Guy Power has commented so many times on the meanings, kanji, romaji, and all things bugei, I would think a search of his posts (some are very recent on the subject) would be in order.

"Dai" is also a numerator. That's it for my Japanese.


[ps]Has anyone here ever stayed at the hotel Dai-Ichi in Japan?

28th September 2002, 13:35
Soke-dai and Shihan-dai (and dairi) from Furyu:


Unless I'm mistaken, a 'shidoshi' is a godan or higher, at least in the Bujinkan.

2nd October 2002, 01:25
Here you go, Tony. Phew!http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=12707&highlight=dai

Mark, thanks for looking out for me :D


2nd October 2002, 12:08
Even the "big guns" need back up now and then.;)