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CEB
2nd October 2002, 21:47
Who knows but as long as he doesn't call it it Goju Ryu I guess I don't care.

I'm told that in the old days in China if somebody wanted to open a boxing school in a particular town he would go to the town and build a Lei Tai ( raised stage like platform ) and get on it and tell the towns people he was available to teach. He would accepted all challengers if no one could knock him off the Lei Tai he could teach in town. If he got his hind end knock off the stage he couldn't. Anybody want to teach? , Maybe this should be requirement to obtain a city business license for teching karate :laugh:

Just kidding. Maybe I'm not kidding it is starting to sound like a good idea. I'll think about some more and and let you know. Yes, it is starting to really sound like a good idea. I'll call the mayor.

Swinger
3rd October 2002, 04:33
Originally posted by Yobina
is karate considered a general term for unarmed karatedo like tecniques or does it need to be a verifiable traditional school with a lineage and such?

I think it is a general term rather than a specific style. As I understand it the name was adapted for the styles of Ryukyu Kenpo that were being introduced to mainstream Japan at the turn of the last century.

Even so the term "karate" was used at different time in Japanese history when refering to various forms of Koppo-taijutsu or Koppojutsu methods. I'm sure these methods were very different from what we know as karate today (in fact something more akin to jujutsu than anything from Okinawa).

3rd October 2002, 07:54
Originally posted by Swinger

Even so the term "karate" was used at different time in Japanese history when refering to various forms of Koppo-taijutsu or Koppojutsu methods.


Can you supply some reference material to support this?



Originally posted by Swinger
I'm sure these methods were very different from what we know as karate today (in fact something more akin to jujutsu than anything from Okinawa).


You mean like tuite????


Victor,

Just looked at your website........your joking right?

MarkF
3rd October 2002, 11:35
Of course it's a joke. It's also a joke on msn, but really, if you want to "share" why use msn or any other ISP or web site? Why not build one yourself? Being a wealthy man, though, that wouldn't be practical or fair, so why not hire a webmaster to build it for you? You would be helping the economy and the unemployment rate all at the same time.

A reason to post pictures of girls isn't really necessary. The reason, I mean. Post pictures and give no reason.
:rolleyes:

Mark

Swinger
3rd October 2002, 13:22
Originally posted by Robert Rousselot
Can you supply some reference material to support this?

Extract from an interview for Budo Nippon published in 1964 between author Morikawa Tetsuro and Masaaki Hatsumi.

Morikawa: Finally, I would like to ask about Koppo ... I believe even the origins of this art differ from those of Karate ... ?

Hatsumi: Yes, they are different. Koppo originated from Kosshi-jutsu. You forge your fingers on rocks for year after year, and they end up just like the claws of wild beasts.

Morikawa: I once wrote a novel based on Koppo myself. The hero was Sasaki Goroemon, a vassal in the service of Kii no Yorinobu. He placed a stone on his knee and split it with his little finger. He was an amazing character: people said that he just had to touch someone for them to fall down and break their bones. I described a fight between him and Tamiya-ryu Iai Batto-jutsu. But none of the authors of sword-master books know anything about Koppo themselves! Even first class martial artists know nothing of Koppo. I attracted a lot of interest from various quarters along the lines "Well I never, such martial arts existed too did they?".

Hatsumi: Sasaki Goroemon is also included in the lineage of my Koppo. It is fundamentally different from Karate. The way you use your force is different. This is why it has more power than Karate. For example, even with a Shuto, you do not inject any power and the force of the fist opening becomes the Shuto directly as it strikes the opponent. Since you are striking them as it opens it looks as though you are striking lightly, but the effect runs through the opponent's bones right to the marrow and their bones end up smashed.

...also an extract from Budo Shunju of October 1965 by Toshitsugu Takamatsu regarding koppo-jutsu

Even though the Dojo claimed on it's doorplate "Shinden Fudo Ryu Jutaijutsu" Sensei Toda was an expert of "Shinden Koto Ryu Karate" and "Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu".

When I turned 13 I had mastered all the lessons of the "Fudo school" and sensei started lessons of "Koto Ryu Karate" and "Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu"

Karate was fun to practice but the practice of Ninjutsu did not interest me at all.

*************************

Also I heard a story that Miyamoto Mushashi started a school of Koppo-taijutsu which is long defunct but was said to revolve around the use of striking with a studded glove (or strap) worn on the right hand.

Has anyone heard anything more of this one?

Swinger
3rd October 2002, 13:28
Originally posted by Robert Rousselot
Just looked at your website........your joking right?

What do you think :rolleyes:

Of course not, I'm deadly serious, but as this thread could be an interesting look into karate as defined in pre-Meiji Japan lets not drag it down and leave discussion of my website to another thread ... Baffling Budo or Budo Fun maybe?

3rd October 2002, 13:32
Originally posted by Swinger


Extract from an interview for Budo Nippon published in 1964 between author Morikawa Tetsuro and Masaaki Hatsumi.

Morikawa: Finally, I would like to ask about Koppo ... I believe even the origins of this art differ from those of Karate ... ?

Hatsumi: Yes, they are different. Koppo originated from Kosshi-jutsu. You forge your fingers on rocks for year after year, and they end up just like the claws of wild beasts.

Morikawa: I once wrote a novel based on Koppo myself. The hero was Sasaki Goroemon, a vassal in the service of Kii no Yorinobu. He placed a stone on his knee and split it with his little finger. He was an amazing character: people said that he just had to touch someone for them to fall down and break their bones. I described a fight between him and Tamiya-ryu Iai Batto-jutsu. But none of the authors of sword-master books know anything about Koppo themselves! Even first class martial artists know nothing of Koppo. I attracted a lot of interest from various quarters along the lines "Well I never, such martial arts existed too did they?".

Hatsumi: Sasaki Goroemon is also included in the lineage of my Koppo. It is fundamentally different from Karate. The way you use your force is different. This is why it has more power than Karate. For example, even with a Shuto, you do not inject any power and the force of the fist opening becomes the Shuto directly as it strikes the opponent. Since you are striking them as it opens it looks as though you are striking lightly, but the effect runs through the opponent's bones right to the marrow and their bones end up smashed.

...also an extract from Budo Shunju of October 1965 by Toshitsugu Takamatsu regarding koppo-jutsu

Even though the Dojo claimed on it's doorplate "Shinden Fudo Ryu Jutaijutsu" Sensei Toda was an expert of "Shinden Koto Ryu Karate" and "Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu".

When I turned 13 I had mastered all the lessons of the "Fudo school" and sensei started lessons of "Koto Ryu Karate" and "Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu"

Karate was fun to practice but the practice of Ninjutsu did not interest me at all.

*************************

Also I heard a story that Miyamoto Mushashi started a school of Koppo-taijutsu which is long defunct but was said to revolve around the use of striking with a studded glove (or strap) worn on the right hand.

Has anyone heard anything more of this one?



Thanks for the info. I had heard of this but never seen it in print.

3rd October 2002, 13:35
Originally posted by Swinger


........ lets not drag it down and leave discussion of my website to another thread ... Baffling Budo or Budo Fun maybe?


Nahhhh...I have better things to do.