H.E Davey and Saigo-ryu aikijujutsu

[O'Neill]

I am interested in some of the books by Mr. Davey and wanted to find out if this is legit aikijujutsu? He is recognized by the kokusai budoin but is this authentic aikijujutsu as recognized by the mainline of the takeda family? I have heard good things but am wary of the saigo aspect. Is this linked to daito ryu? Thanks.

Erin O'Neill

[Walker]

What do you think? Look over the book and see if it makes any sense.

See you at the barricades. :cool:

[sanskara]

I visited Davey's Dojo (then in El Cerrito, CA) in the early 90's several times. I also talked to him for several hours over the course of my visits specifically about his art and influences.

In my opinion, he runs a pretty good Dojo with good waza. However, I also don't buy the Aikijujutsu/Saigo tie-in legacy, used to legitimize the establishment.

What I've seen at the Sennin Foundation basically looks like Shin Shin Toitsu Aikido (read: Ki Society,) with softened Judo techniques thrown into the kata. There are some modified Daito-Ryu techniques practiced there as well, but again, they've been altered to mesh with the principles found in the other practices.

I don't know anything about the Kokusai Budoin organization, per say, but I do know that the other organization he touts membership in, the Shudokan Budokai, was created by his mentor Walter Todd. If I had to make a guess, given that H.E. Davey learned his art from his Father, and his Father learned both Judo and Aikido from Walter Todd, that there's the connection and the real legacy. You'd have to look further into the requirements for membership into the Kokusai Budoin to learn more about how prestigious that may or may not be.

Incidentally, I think the issue over the Sennin Foundation's legitimacy as a disseminator of authentic Aikijujutsu (see their site at http://www.michionline.com) cuts into the heart of what's wrong with some perceptions of martial legitimacy.

Even if the Sennin Foundation and H.E. Davey are merely teaching a combination Ki-Aikido Judo art, they're pretty damn good at it. It's a real shame there even has to be a claimed Koryu connection in order for the teachings to be appreciated and seen as authentic. But such is the nature of martial arts these days: big on historical lineage, often lacking in technical or applicational substance. Here's an example of an establishment and a teacher who have the opposite problem.

Regards,
James Bostwick

[Walker]

Be what you are. Problem solved.

[Brently Keen]

James,

I think you hit the nail right on the head.

Doug, your response indicates the logical solution - the problem is some of these guys actually believe that what they've made up is who they are.

Brently

[Brently Keen]

James,

I think you hit the nail right on the head.

Doug, your response indicates the logical solution - the problem is some of these guys actually believe that what they've made up is who they are.

Brently

[Walker]

Yeah. Self Knowledge vs. Self Delusion can be such a thorny problem.

[jtm]

Hi members,

There is a school that is offering an open class tonite. I'm thinking of checking it out, but am shocked that they are offering an open class because my little exposure to AJJ has shown me that the groups are often small and tight.

http://www.craigslist.org/cls/107864697.html

So, any feedback on this dojo? It's about an 80 minute drive, so I will check back here frequently for responses before I head out.

Cheers,
Jesse Marandino

[jtm]

Thanks for the fast response. You responded before I could even edit my post to say that I was less concerned with the facts behind the lineage and more concerned with people's hands-on comparision of the skills trained.

In that light, if anyone has had the opportunity to train with them I'd like to know
if you believe that they are working on the same skills that a legitimate lineage would hope to give you.

Thanks muchly,
Jesse Marandino

[Mateo]

I've seen Davey's book. It seems fine and there is no absurd or blatantly wrong information presented there that I know of but there is very little technique shown either.

I don't know what to do with a system of aikijujutsu which does not link itself to Takeda Sokaku. It doesn't fit for me.

Davey however is training in a system his father learned as a soldier stationed in Japan. His father learned some art off of someone and there is nothing to say that the content of his art isn't sound. The people involved are documented in his book and he admits to limited knowledge about his father's teacher and the origins of the art.

Personally I feel he comes across like an honest man who is not trying to make false claims. But my knowledge of him is only through his own writings and what other martial artists have said about him.

I'd enjoy the opportunity to see him myself and make my own decisions.

[Mark Jakabcsin]

Jesse,
So you would base your decision on wether to train with these folks or not based on the replies of people you haven't met and don't know. Interesting.

My suggestion is seek your own experiences and make your own decision.

Mark J

ps. Also try using the search feature as I believe there are old discussion with regard to Mr. Harvey, not that you should place any stock in those discussions but you might find them interesting.

[jtm]

Hi Mark,

To some degree I would base an initial opinion on feedback I could get from this forum. This forum was referred to me as a good place to look for info on Daito-ryu, and so here I am. If someone on this forum was a current member of that dojo or had trained with them then I could use that feedback to help me decide.

There are lots of schools, some easy to find and some hard. I'm willing to take any help I can get to be pointed in the right direction.

Thanks for your response. Point taken on the search function.
Best,
Jesse Marandino

[jtm]

Hi Mark,
I actually re-read your post and my response and decided to disagree with you. I wasn't going to base my decision on whether or not to train with them based on the feedback from the forum.
I was going to base some portion of my decision to break previous plans in order to
drive out of town to check them out during this free session.

I'm not sure why this is interesting to you, unless it's no longer interesting now that you see your misunderstanding.

Either way, a forum is useful for what it can be used for. Sharing information.

Here's to sharing information with you in the future! :beer:

[Nathan Scott]

Merged threads...