View Full Version : Differences between jujutsu ryu-ha

3rd October 2002, 05:33
Can someone here enlighten me about Hakko-ryu jujutsu?

Alex K.

3rd October 2002, 06:56
Hakko Ryu is a fairly modern style of jujutsu, officially founded in 1941. Shodai Soke, the founder, was an instructor in Daito Ryu and I believe this formed the basis of Hakko Ryu's techniques. The founder was also well versed in traditional healing methods, and this also plays a large part in the school's teachings I believe.

I trained in it a little bit in the UK, and the Daito Ryu influence was obvious from what I remember.

The official Web site of the school is pretty informative. You can find it at: http://www.hakkoryu.com

Hope that's of some help.


3rd October 2002, 16:48
From what I read, it seems to be a "softer" style than Daito-ryu, kind of emphasizing treating your attacker with kid gloves. Is this incorrect?

Alex K.

4th October 2002, 04:19
I don't know if kid gloves is really the right term, but it does teach a lot of taihojutsu-type stuff, which has made it attractive to police forces, etc. around the world.


4th October 2002, 21:00

I've been involved in Hakko-Ryu, and other ryu/ha derived from it, since 1965. From my experience in the U.S., Japan, and Europe, how it is practiced is largely determined by the instructor. Just as with Aikido, I've seen some that practice a very gentle approach, while others are absolutely brutal. Personally, I like brutal.:toast:


Roy Jerry Hobbs

4th October 2002, 23:03

Can I find "brutal" hakkyo-ruy in Southern California? I'm looking for something as close to Daito-ryu as I can get, here near L.A. or Orange County, without resorting to Aikido (something gets lost in the translation for me with Aikido).

A. Kent

5th October 2002, 11:54
Kent San,

Don't know how close you are to Monterey. If you're not too far you might want to try Julio Toribio Sensei. I've never personally trained with him, but my Sensei (Yasuhiro Irie) speaks well of him. He teaches a broadened version of Hakko-Ryu. Since he is a former Army Ranger I suspect his approach is likely not on the soft side. His website is www.seibukanjujutsu.com. Good luck with your search.


Roy Jerry Hobbs

5th October 2002, 17:34
Rocket san,

Checked out Toribio sensei's site. Looks great, and I have heard his name mentioned in my travels...But Monterey, although beautiful, it quite a bit North of where I live and work. Thanks for the tip though.

Alex K.

5th October 2002, 18:46
Regarding the Seibukan Jujutsu web site and what they teach: It may indeed be very good, I wouldn't hazard to guess, but this web site has been up for a while now, and he has not changed the glaring errors on his history page ("Jigoro Kano was born in 1871," and other similar mistakes (making Kano eleven years old max when he officially set up the Kodokan).

He also is refering to the general year of 5000 BCE in relation to martial arts. The Iceman isn't that old.

My only advice would be to look into this one carefully before committing to anything. Even the mish-mosh of training styles has the look of "a little here, a little there, nothing square." Nothing wrong with adding from other styles, I do that when I can, but just the same it sounds like Doc Roddy's biographer, Bill "The Hack" Durbin who has one big gaffe after another in his writings, including this one, in describing Morihei Uyeshiba's martial beginnings thus: "Ueshiba began his martial arts training in 1868 at the age of fifteen..."

If he's good, hey, go for it, but if you are like most, research isn't all that much different than keiko; correct the mistakes to make training as beneficial as possible.



Joseph Svinth
5th October 2002, 21:49
You can always try James Williams' Dojo of the Four Winds in Encinitas. The location is listed at http://www.dojoofthefourwinds.com/location.html .

6th October 2002, 22:32
Hey Guys,

I can't vouch for Toribio Sensei's ability as a historian. All I can say is that he completed the full syllabus of Hakko-Ryu JuJutsu and has an ongoing training relationship with Yasuhiro Irie of the KoKoDo JuJutsu Renmei. My guess is that he is very technically proficient in the physical aspects of JuJutsu.

As for the historian angle, I have an undergraduate degree in History from the University of North Carolina at Wilmington (1974). I've also authored, and had published, a couple of articles on martial arts related subjects (i.e., karate stuff). But, what I've come to realize as I get older is that I really don't know as much as I once thought.

Still learning....


Roy Jerry Hobbs

Brently Keen
8th October 2002, 03:30
I don't know about the historical inaccuracies on the Seibukan website, but I do know Julio Toribio sensei, and can personally vouch for his jujutsu expertise - he is a fine teacher and all around very nice guy. He has a solid background in both aikido and Hakko-ryu Jujutsu, as well as in Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu among other things.

I think he created his own modern jujutsu art (Seibukan Jujutsu) in order to bring together the various influences that have shaped his own journey in budo. Toribio sensei recently wrote an interesting open letter to Aikido Journal in which he describes his recent trip to train with Katsuyuki Kondo sensei - although he's got plenty of credentials and skills, he's always looking to learn more, and is not above putting on a white belt again to study yet another style of Japanese martial arts.

FWIW, I believe he was one of the featured demonstrators at the Aiki Expo this year, so you can probably learn more about him at over at the Aikido Journal website.

Brently Keen

8th October 2002, 19:22

Contact Gil Adams Sensei at th Zanshin Goshin Dojo in Pasadena. He teaches Hakko Denshin Ryu. I believe this is what you are looking for. His phone # is 626-351-8981. Tell him Robert referred you...

Best of luck,

Greg Jennings
8th October 2002, 20:56

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Toribio Sensei's Seibukan something totally different from the Sacharnoski/Parulski Seibukan?

Isn't it the Sacharnoski(sp?)/Parulski Seibukan that Durbin is tied up with?


9th October 2002, 09:51

Nope, no connection.

A number of groups use the name.



Roy Jerry Hobbs:beer: