View Full Version : Obi under or on hakama?

3rd October 2002, 20:31
I saw some time ago here on e-budo I believe, a pix with obi on hakama instead of under hakama.Can't find it now :(
Could somebody point me in right direction please? Also I'm looking for a reason why one wants to put an obi on hakama?


Jay Bell
3rd October 2002, 20:41
Here's an example from the Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho

Click on dis here (http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/hyoho/technique_e.htm)

As for reasoning? I honestly don't know. During my short stint in Shinto Muso ryu, it was under. Yet I've seen Kukishin Tenshin Hyoho and Yagyu Shingan ryu do it on the outside of the hakama.

Richard Elias
3rd October 2002, 22:33
They are wearing their obi in the manner of a shigoki.
Shigoki are wide soft usually white sash worn somewhat loose and low on the hips, it is supposed to be representative of how an obi is worn when wearing armor. On the outside and usually with a tanto woven into it at the front. They are not that uncommon in arts that do kumiuchi or koshimawari type techniques, which are techniques in armor though usually practiced without armor. They are also used in some schools of iai, such as that practiced by Kuroda tetsuzan, and in Kenbu-sword dance.

5th October 2002, 03:27
Very interesting.
Thx Richard and Jay!

ps Riding the horse, sword was attached to obi also? But not the same way we use it for iaido practice presently?

7th October 2002, 01:21
Doesn't the obi have to be over the hakama if you want to wear a sword?

Richard Elias
7th October 2002, 07:48
When riding a horse usually a tachi was worn, with a tanto. The tanto was woven into the obi as I mentioned, and the tachi was hung from the belt edge-downward from two hangers called Ashi.

Costomarily the obi is worn under the hakama, with about 1/4 to 1/2 an inch of the obi sticking up out of it. Somtimes no hakama was worn at all. Obi is usually worn with kimono even by those not wearing swords. But, as I said, some iai schools will wear it as shigoki (out side of the hakama) for their practice, as will those who practice grappling in armor. For iai this is more the exception than the rule, most schools wear the obi beneath the hakama.

Richard Elias
7th October 2002, 19:07
The obi worn with armor is called a Uwa-obi, and the men's for normal wear (w/kimono, w/wo hakama) is called a Kaku-obi. The Shigoki seems to have been for the specific purposes I mentioned above, and is also worn with various costumes during festivals.