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Shadowmover
4th October 2002, 07:19
This is a link from the online magazine, at MartialInfo.com. They have a feature every issue where they ask "experts" their opinions about different martial arts. The panel of experts is supposedly comprised of practitioners of the art being featured.

This issue it was "ninja" (rather than ninjutsu). I recognized only one reputable name on the panel, Stephen Hayes (not to say there weren't others, but I didn't recognize them)...However, they lumped Ashida Kim and a Tew Ryu person in the group.

http://www.martialinfo.com/styles/survey/nameexp.asp?person=Ashida%20Kim

Make the madness stop...please!

:mad:

Alex Kent

Richard Price
4th October 2002, 11:24
In olden times, training began after the child had demonstrated his innate will to survive by passing some sort of "test" like being tossed into a pond

Hmmm...yes perhaps if the "olden times" we are talking about were the ones where Lee Van Cleef was called "The Master". Nyuk nyuk......words cannot express my contempt. Perhaps thats why Ashida is such a Scooby......his parents tossed him in a pond when he was little. :D

Baio
10th October 2002, 11:09
AK really knows his weapons laws
"Are weapons training a part of this style? Yes, but only in the sense that we train in Five Types of weapons (and how to improvise them) corresponding to the Five Elements. This is because many times weapons are outlawed. In Australia even now prohibited items include, "anything with a point or an edge, anything that is stiff or flexible, and anything that can be propelled or thrown."

anything stiff or flexible is illegal in australia luckily ashida is there to teach somone to improvise weapons or of things that are neither stiff not flexible, can anyone think of one?

Andy Watson
10th October 2002, 12:15
Quote: "Likewise, women have softer muscles in their arms, making it easier for them to strangle an opponent than for a man"

Any comments, jujutsu/judo practitioners, male or female?

Soulend
10th October 2002, 12:50
What a clown. I wonder in what Japanese dialect "jitsu" means 'way' or 'path'?

:laugh:

meat
10th October 2002, 13:12
Umm, if your doing a choke right, the amount of fat/muscle and its hradness/softness doesn't mean squat. A good choke is done with the forearm bone, muscle doesn't even enter into it.

Joachim
13th October 2002, 15:13
What country did this style originated from? Pangeia or Tibet. Scholars disagree.
The guy's talking about PANGEA, right? Now some nut from Ninjutsu claims it to be 300 MILLION years old?

That even tops

In about 700 BC (or 500 BC, or 600 BC), The King Mima drifted from the ancient Babylonia Caldia Kingdom to Japan.
or

In 1184...Daisuke Togakure learned Doshi's warrior teachings, and added them to his own Shugendo beliefs, and the beginnings of Togakure Ryu where forged...Shima was to become the second soke of Togakure Ryu

Now ninjutsu does no longer only claim seniority over all established japanese ryu and the ryu system istelf or over all existing asian martial arts but over humanity?
That's kinda cool. :D

For you not well versed in pre-history :-) homo erectus, the first hominid, lived about 2 million years ago. The first human (homo sapiens) originated about 200,000 years ago.

Aegis
13th October 2002, 15:17
6000 years? Ummmm.....

How old is the Egyptian civilisation? Isn't that the oldest known?

Baio
13th October 2002, 15:21
actually from what i know the earliest recordings found of the martial arts are wall zoescope silhouettes Egypt and they're about 4000 years old they're in an issue of national geographic from the 50s

kirigirisu
13th October 2002, 20:33
Originally posted by Aegis
6000 years? Ummmm.....

How old is the Egyptian civilisation? Isn't that the oldest known?

Um, nope. Summerians and Babylonians and Assyrians are a bit older. Came up with a lot of things, including civilization, beer, and the whole "Great Flood" metaphor/legend/myth/fairytale/inaccurate retelling of actual event/whatever thing long before Moses and his tribe.

Maybe they were the ones who came up with this "Ninjitsu," passed on from the ancient Pangean Dinosaur Kung-Fu onto the lost continent of Mu before travelling on through Lemuria and Atlantis who merged it with Alien Space Pyramid Builders Jitsu and passed it on to the Summerians, who gave it to the Tibetians, who also got it from the Alien Space Pyramid Builders who brought it over from Pangea from the last of the Dinosaur Sokes.

kirigirisu
13th October 2002, 20:43
Originally posted by Shadowmover
Make the madness stop...please!

:mad:

Alex Kent

I'm just surprised that they didn't include this guy (http://www.realultimatepower.net).

I mean, c'mon! Everyone knows that Ninjas are mammals, they fight all the time, they FLIP OUT and kill people, and they're cool, and by cool I mean TOTALLY SWEET.

Oh, and write screenplays that make them want to kick your mom in the face.

Plus they didn't exactly portray Uncle Steve in the best light either. Looks more like a cut and paste job from the ToShinDo website faq.

Or the other alternative: kyojutsu, anyone?

Shadowmover
13th October 2002, 21:45
Now that's more like it!


My friend Mark said that he saw a ninja totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.

Now this is definitely what I would expect a ninja to do. I'm sick and tired of people opening and closing windows on a whim...

"Ninjas are cool, and by cool I mean totally sweet"

Huh? I think this fellow may be hiding some LHT's...

:rolleyes:


A. Kent

NoMan
13th October 2002, 21:46
The oldest civilization that I know of is in India, discovered by F.A. Khan, circa 3300-2800 BCE, which was pushed further back by Ahmad Hasan Dani, and Durrani. The furthest I've seen it traced back to is 7,000 BCE, while Sumeria around 5,000 BCE, which has the official "Garden of Eden", (the Sumerians actually named it that, it's a little patch of land they believed the World originated from). The Indus Valley Civilization is the oldest we know of, but unfortunately, we can't read anything they wrote. A few books have come out which proposed to have solved the Indus Valley Script, but they haven't been really put to the test yet.

Egyptian period starts at the Predynastic Period [5000/4500-2925 BCE].

kirigirisu
13th October 2002, 21:58
Originally posted by NoMan
The oldest civilization that I know of is in India, discovered by F.A. Khan, circa 3300-2800 BCE, which was pushed further back by Ahmad Hasan Dani, and Durrani. The furthest I've seen it traced back to is 7,000 BCE, while Sumeria around 5,000 BCE, which has the official "Garden of Eden", (the Sumerians actually named it that, it's a little patch of land they believed the World originated from). The Indus Valley Civilization is the oldest we know of, but unfortunately, we can't read anything they wrote. A few books have come out which proposed to have solved the Indus Valley Script, but they haven't been really put to the test yet.

Egyptian period starts at the Predynastic Period [5000/4500-2925 BCE].

Okay, so maybe the Indus Valley Civilization got it from the ancient Pangean Dinosaur Sokes and the Alien Space Pyramid Builders before passing it along with the secrets of Inappropriate Touch Kung Fu and Astral Assassination down through the sands of time to Uncle (alleged) Chris.

NoMan
15th October 2002, 10:53
Originally posted by kirigirisu


Okay, so maybe the Indus Valley Civilization got it from the ancient Pangean Dinosaur Sokes and the Alien Space Pyramid Builders before passing it along with the secrets of Inappropriate Touch Kung Fu and Astral Assassination down through the sands of time to Uncle (alleged) Chris.

What??? You can't claim lineage to the same martial art that I study!!!!!

Everyone knows the true lineage of martial arts is traced back to snake worshipping civilizations who inherited it from astral telepathy with foreign aliens:

http://philelmore.com/profiling/ryanhistory.htm

kirigirisu
15th October 2002, 12:16
calm your horses, Pard.

I'm still trying to figure out Uncle (alleged) Chris's whole lineage for his "Ninjitsu." At this point everything is heresay and conjecture.

Although I see nothing about the Dinosaur Sokes of Pangea or the Alien Space Pyramid Builders or the Arts of the Lizard Men from Hollow Earth in Elmore Sensei's Ryu. Perhaps this is hidden knowledge orally transmitted from Soke to Soke through the sands of time.

Snakes ain't lizards ain't Dinosaurs.

dakotajudo
21st October 2002, 13:45
Originally posted by meat
Umm, if your doing a choke right, the amount of fat/muscle and its hradness/softness doesn't mean squat. A good choke is done with the forearm bone, muscle doesn't even enter into it.

Um, sorry, but I must correct this.

A good choke uses the first or fifth metacarpal; a crude choke uses the forearm.

Getting a good choke requires flexibility in the wrist and the right application of strength in the wrist, correctly timed.

Using the wrist allows you to target the carotids and vagus nerve; a crude choke closes the trachea. Unconsciousness via a carotid choke comes in a few seconds; instaneously via the vagus pressure point. Pressure on the trachea, while painful and likely to get a quick submission, leaves a lot of air in the lungs for fighting out of the choke.

R Erman
21st October 2002, 14:30
Originally posted by dakotajudo


Um, sorry, but I must correct this.

A good choke uses the first or fifth metacarpal; a crude choke uses the forearm.

Getting a good choke requires flexibility in the wrist and the right application of strength in the wrist, correctly timed.

Using the wrist allows you to target the carotids and vagus nerve; a crude choke closes the trachea. Unconsciousness via a carotid choke comes in a few seconds; instaneously via the vagus pressure point. Pressure on the trachea, while painful and likely to get a quick submission, leaves a lot of air in the lungs for fighting out of the choke.

Of course we could get really technical and say that a good shime is applied by using not the muscles and bones of the arm, per se, but uses an opening of the chest caused by pullng back with the lats. This constriction tightens up the entire "frame" of the choke with minimal muscle use.

Onmitsu
21st October 2002, 21:32
A good choke is done with the forearm bone.


Um, sorry, but I must correct this.


Of course we could get really technical...

Sheesh!
Suffice it to say, the original quote stating that women are better at choking because they have soft muscles is somewhat inaccurate?

R Erman
21st October 2002, 22:56
Originally posted by Onmitsu


Sheesh!
Suffice it to say, the original quote stating that women are better at choking because they have soft muscles is somewhat inaccurate?

That was kinda my point. Even though the original comment was ridiculous--which is to be expected from AK--the proper way to choke argument is like a broken record-record-record-record.

dakotajudo
26th October 2002, 15:56
Originally posted by R Erman


That was kinda my point. Even though the original comment was ridiculous--which is to be expected from AK--the proper way to choke argument is like a broken record-record-record-record.

Perhaps I wasn't explicit enough. Let's go back to the first statement:


Quote: "Likewise, women have softer muscles in their arms, making it easier for them to strangle an opponent than for a man"

Any comments, jujutsu/judo practitioners, male or female?


If you understand some of the sublties of choking, which I attempted to explain, this statement does make some kind of sense. The choice of words is asinine, but the message is not inaccurate. Certainly no more ridiculous than the statement that chokes are performed using the forearm bone.

From personal experience, I would much rather defend against a hard forearm against the throat than a soft wrist around the neck. The soft choke is sneakier, thus easier to apply; therefore, gender generalization aside, Ashida's statement, in this particular instance, is reasonably correct.

The sun, as the saying goes, does occasionaly shine on a dog's ass.

meat
27th October 2002, 11:01
Sorry, the way that it was described I thought that AK was implying that a choke was done in the crook of the elbow where all the flesh is, hence the fact women having softer muscles it would work better. If you want to get technical Peter, you are absolutely right, using the metacarpal on the artery does produce a better choke, although I don't know what the vagus pressure point is, could you fill me in? A forearm choke can be almost as effective when done on a non martial artist. As soon as u put a choke on someone who isn't used to it they panic, which means any oxygen left in their body is gonna get used up real quick and its lights out.

NoMan
27th October 2002, 14:38
Originally posted by meat
Sorry, the way that it was described I thought that AK was implying that a choke was done in the crook of the elbow where all the flesh is, hence the fact women having softer muscles it would work better. If you want to get technical Peter, you are absolutely right, using the metacarpal on the artery does produce a better choke, although I don't know what the vagus pressure point is, could you fill me in? A forearm choke can be almost as effective when done on a non martial artist. As soon as u put a choke on someone who isn't used to it they panic, which means any oxygen left in their body is gonna get used up real quick and its lights out.

Best chokes I've done used the hand and not the forearm at all. Typically though these were chokes from the side of the person and not behind. If you use the crook of your arm, they'll simply turn their chin into the crook and then you'll be spending your energy trying to choke out their chin. (Note on grappling people who are freaky strong, I did this to one guy and it felt like I had lockjaw after he kept trying to squeeze it.)

Of course, what kind of choke are we talking about? Assumably the rear naked choke, but if we're talking about your average fight, it doesn't really matter. A choke can be as crude as you want it, they don't know how to counter. Being sneaky isn't too hard.

It's been my experience that women have some problems choking best because of the height/weight problem. Seemingly, we're speaking of the typical choke, a rear-naked choke or whatever you want to call it, (sleeper hold, whatever). Some women who are short can't reach up and choke out a guy who is 6'2 unless he is on the ground or in some way unable to maneuver out of reach.

For the strength/length of arm problem, I've tried choking out guys with necks thicker than my legs before, unless you have them in one hell of a position, you're not going to choke them out. Guys with freaky strength are hard to grapple with. One guy I actually had problems even getting my arm around his neck, much less the idea of getting leverage on it.