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Qasim
6th October 2002, 07:10
I was wondering, what style does everyone practice/study? I study Fuji Ryu Jujutsu.

Rocket
6th October 2002, 23:22
Uriah,

O.K., I'll bite. ;)

I practice three ryu/ha:

1. KoKoDo JuJutsu (Yasuhiro Irie's Hakko-Ryu derivative)

2. Ryoi Shinto Ryu JuJutsu (as learned from Jim Shortt)

3. KoKamishin-Ryu [my term] JuJutsu (Al Church's original jujustu method)

Cheers!

"Rocket"

Roy Jerry Hobbs

Qasim
7th October 2002, 01:28
Originally posted by Rocket
Uriah,

O.K., I'll bite. ;)



I don't get it. I asked a simple question, what was the meaning of this statement? :confused:

Rocket
7th October 2002, 11:53
Uriah,

No personal insult intended.

My point is that discussions as to specific ryu/ha very often degenerate into politics and personalities. Hopefully we won't end up on that same ole dusty trail.

Wishing you a good day....

"Rocket"

Roy Jerry Hobbs:)

Mike Williams
7th October 2002, 15:23
I study with the WJJF - A British gendai style.

As to why? I love it! It covers all ranges, and it's the closest I can get to real fighting without risking (much) injury or incarceration! :D :D :D

Plus it's local, cheap, and I train with a good bunch of folks

Oh yeah, and nagging injuries aside, I'm the fittest I've been for years.

Cheers,

Mike

Budoka 34
7th October 2002, 19:41
Shinto Yoshin Ryu Jiu-Jitsu

Kwanmukan/USJJF Ju-Jitsu

And just to round it all out, AFSGA (American FreeStyle Grappling)

:smilejapa

CEB
7th October 2002, 19:44
Steel Toe Boot and Ball Bat

Rocket
7th October 2002, 20:32
Ed,

Great minds think alike. My "Tar Heel" grandpa preferred a grubbing hoe. It was readily available and accomplished the mission. We call that a field expedient method in the military.

"Rocket"

Roy Jerry Hobbs:D

47th ronin
7th October 2002, 21:40
Can-ryu jiu jitsu, a gendai style.

Rocket, I just picked up Self Defense The Essential Handbook by James Shortt.

Mike Williams, I have spent a lot of time with Richard Morris, one time partner to Robert Clarke, so I believe we have similar backgrounds.

Rocket
7th October 2002, 22:03
Cris,

Jim has written a number of books on the martial arts, self defense, security, etc. Wish I had his writing ability. I think you'll enjoy his work.

I too have worked with Richard Morris, mostly in the mid to late 80s. Haven't seen him for many years.

"Rocket"

47th ronin
7th October 2002, 22:14
Rocket, shall I say hello for you? he will be in Ottawa early november.http://www.prosar.com/capital_conquest_2002/instructors.html

Rocket
7th October 2002, 22:40
Cris,

Yes please. Tell him I wish him the best and hope to train with him again before we both pass away.

"Rocket"

Roy Jerry Hobbs:D

47th ronin
7th October 2002, 22:50
I don't know about you, but that old road dog won't slow down. Last time I saw him, he flew from Thailand to England, grabbed a change of clothes, flew to Montreal and went straight from the airport to the first of a series of seminars. He puts most youngsters to shame, and still hits like a brick wall. I think he is still working on the "gentle" part of jiu jitsu;).

Rocket
8th October 2002, 01:03
Cris,

Sounds like he hasn't changed a bit. Guess some of us just haven't found our feminine sides. :toast:

"Rocket"

Roy Jerry Hobbs

Qasim
9th October 2002, 19:13
Originally posted by Rocket
Uriah,

No personal insult intended.

My point is that discussions as to specific ryu/ha very often degenerate into politics and personalities. Hopefully we won't end up on that same ole dusty trail.

Wishing you a good day....

"Rocket"

Roy Jerry Hobbs:)

OK. 'Nuff said :mst:

Mia-Ryu
9th October 2002, 19:48
I also study Fujiryu Jujutsu with Quasim, and I have been studying for over 4 years now.

Why do I study Jujutsu??
Technique, technique, technique! I simply love the fact that you don't rely on muscle strength to perform most of the self-defense moves. I was never one who was good with kicks (which is why I dropped out of Tae Kwon Do to join jujutsu even though I had 4 months left on my dumb contract.) To this day, the Tae Kwon Do school around the corner from us still rips our flyers off the telephone poles (and they make sure they encourage their students to rip them off as well!).

Anywho....I have also noticed that jujutsu classes in my area tend to be smaller then the Karate and Tae Kwon Do and Karate schools as jujutsu has a higher drop out rate. I have found that this drop out rate tends to produce a core number of hardcore, very dedicated students who are willing to stick it out through thick and thin. Not to mention, I get more individualized attention as oppossed to being part of the cattle herd like I was when I was attending a Tae Kwon Do School. Of course, I'm sure that not all Tae Kwon Do school's were as politicaly motivated as the one I attended. There are no politics in my jujutsu class in the years I have been with them, only a close knit family. Shoot....in the first week I was at the Tae Kwon Do school, I found out that the Grandmaster was cheating on his wife with one of the instructors!!!!

One last point....when you practice jujutsu, you tend to get very personal with other students in regards to developing bonds. Since you lend another person your body, everyone learns to respect other peoples bodies. There is no "Wild Swinging Sparring" that leaves the stronger/ faster oponent pummeling the lesser skilled individual both physically and mentally. Both the Uki and the Tori want to help each other advance so that they do not kill each other when practicing throws and falls, and they are able to practise harder, faster and higher level of skills. The lack of negative competition is something that sticks out about jujutsu.

Does everyone else experience the same in regards to competition and student bonding??? I would love to hear your opinions:D

Dan Harden
10th October 2002, 14:51
Shannon
I find your experiences to be spot on.
Welcome to the big "small" world of Jujutsu.

Dan harden

Cady Goldfield
10th October 2002, 15:14
Shannon Marie,

It is sooooo refreshing to "meet" another woman pursuing this exquisite path and making the same discoveries.

Cady

Qasim
10th October 2002, 21:52
Originally posted by Mia-Ryu
...One last point....when you practice jujutsu, you tend to get very personal with other students in regards to developing bonds. Since you lend another person your body, everyone learns to respect other peoples bodies. There is no "Wild Swinging Sparring" that leaves the stronger/ faster oponent pummeling the lesser skilled individual both physically and mentally. Both the Uki and the Tori want to help each other advance so that they do not kill each other when practicing throws and falls, and they are able to practise harder, faster and higher level of skills. The lack of negative competition is something that sticks out about jujutsu.


Couldn't have said it any better or as eloquently. You ROCK! I'm glad I opened this thread and poll. I hope others chime in and share their experiences and insights.

TyroneTurner
11th October 2002, 16:22
I LOVE Jujutsu. It is amazing how a properly applied joint lock can have a much larger, stronger person begging for mercy. We have a good number of law enforcement officers and security (i.e. bouncers and body guards) in some of our classes and what they like most about the classes is that you have an opportunity to take the fight out of a person without having to actually take them out.

As my teacher always says, what if a loved one is freaking out because they had too much to drink or they are tripping on some kind of drug or something. You probably would want to restrain them and not beat them to a bloody pulp, right.

As much as I love Jujutsu, I have one problem with the way some people train. In order to successfully apply a kotegaeshi or nikajo lock, you have to work your way there so one ideally should know how to hit/kick hard and fast, in combinations, to sufficiently shock an attacker in order to be able to apply a lock.

I don't know Qasim and Mia-Ryu personally, but we have to walk the streets on NYC and if you don't put some hurt on an attacker FIRST, it is very unlikely that you can successfully apply any kind of joint lock. They aren't just going to hold their arms out there for you to grab. They are fighting too, remember? I have also noticed that a lot of Jujutsu practioners lazily parry or block incoming punches/kicks. I'm not suggesting that one blocks hard, but make sure to move your body out of the line of fire and make sure that the attacking limb is cleared by your parry/block. It is best to evade the strike and parry/block as insurance. It will help keep one from developing the bad habit of just standing there in front on an opponent.

Joints are very fragile so I don't recommend doing joint locks and throws more that 2X per week. Sometimes we opt to work on controlled Judo-like throws and Karate/Boxing techniques as our finishing techniques rather than joint-lock throws. It is easier on the body this way.

Just last night, one of my classmates executed a shihonage (four direction throw) on me last night. He was a little to anxious and ended up doing a fast small circle with my wrist and it wasn't for me really getting my butt in gear and leaping into the throw, I'm certain that he would have dislocated my wrist. I'm still feeling it now.

Jujutsu is fun, but it can be painful so please be gentle with the uke...

"Never abuse the uke because when he/she has an opportunity to be tori, the ground will rise up and smite thee on thine back with great impact." :-)

Aegis
11th October 2002, 16:59
Originally posted by TyroneTurner
....As much as I love Jujutsu, I have one problem with the way some people train. In order to successfully apply a kotegaeshi or nikajo lock, you have to work your way there so one ideally should know how to hit/kick hard and fast, in combinations, to sufficiently shock an attacker in order to be able to apply a lock......

You don't need to hit hard to put one of these locks on. A slap to the face will be just as effective a distraction and has the advantage of being much faster than a punch. As long as they either see or feel the distraction, it will work as it should.

On the other hand, using atemi as distractions can also be beneficial....

TyroneTurner
11th October 2002, 17:30
Originally posted by Aegis


You don't need to hit hard to put one of these locks on. A slap to the face will be just as effective a distraction and has the advantage of being much faster than a punch. As long as they either see or feel the distraction, it will work as it should.

On the other hand, using atemi as distractions can also be beneficial....

I don't necessarily disagree but it is just that most Jujutsu practioners I've met are way too laxed and not deliberate enough when they slap or use some other distracting atemi. They just want to jump into applying a joint lock which is a no-no in the real world. I just prefer to hit multiple times (when possible) to set up a joint lock or throw. This is just a matter of taste, not gospel. Of course when someone is grabbing you (eg. a lapel or wrist grab) you can quickly apply a lock.

My concern is that a lot of Jujutsu practitioners are too defensive in that when confronted with an unavoidable violent confrontation, they rarely strike first. This could be a real problem when one is not used to evading and/or parrying "live" strikes. Not being able to react properly (i.e. getting out of the way, remaining composed under fire, and counter attacking). This is why I supplement my Jujutsu training with Boxing and Judo. I'm not saying that you have to load up and try to smash your classmate, but a lot of people have a tendency to always punch way off the mark which will be a handicap in a real fight. Hey, you're going to fight the way you train so at the very least make sure that you have proper distancing so that your punch would land if you really wanted to hit your partner.

Aegis
11th October 2002, 18:52
We train full speed, aiming for the target. If our partner doesn't get out the way, we pull the punch enough to avoid badly hurting them, but will still tap them where it would have impacted. We try to get the deliberate missing out of people's systems straight away, and you will fail your FIRST grading if you fail to attack on target.

TyroneTurner
11th October 2002, 19:07
Originally posted by Aegis
We train full speed, aiming for the target. If our partner doesn't get out the way, we pull the punch enough to avoid badly hurting them, but will still tap them where it would have impacted. We try to get the deliberate missing out of people's systems straight away, and you will fail your FIRST grading if you fail to attack on target.

We are kindred spirits :-)

That is the way training should be Aegis. Unfortunately, some Jujutsuka do not train this way and rather than developing their technique, the are developing a false sense of security.

All the best,

Qasim
11th October 2002, 20:10
Originally posted by TyroneTurner
I don't know Qasim and Mia-Ryu personally, but we have to walk the streets on NYC and if you don't put some hurt on an attacker FIRST, it is very unlikely that you can successfully apply any kind of joint lock. They aren't just going to hold their arms out there for you to grab. They are fighting too, remember?

What are you saying/implying? I don't understand this statement?

:nono:

TyroneTurner
11th October 2002, 20:31
I hope that you don't think that I'm saying anything negative towards you or Mia-Ryu because I'm not. I just noticed that both of you live in NYC like I do and the street thugs don't play here so our game really needs to be tight. That's all.

This is what I don't like about the Internet/email. A person can easily misinterpret your statement. Especially when you write a brief email. Speaking of brief, let me wrap this post up because my right wrist is killing me thanks to one of my dojo mates :-)

As far as leaving ones arm out, I was just talking about how some train by launching a telegraphed, super slo-mo lunge punch and leaving it out there for the defender to grab. To me that is not realistic. No one really punches like that. Think of a boxer's jab. It is brought back home quickly so they can defend and perhaps throw another punch with the same hand. By training this way, the defender (tori) will get a false sense of the effectiveness of his/her movement and technique.

Qasim
11th October 2002, 21:58
Originally posted by TyroneTurner
This is what I don't like about the Internet/email. A person can easily misinterpret your statement. Especially when you write a brief email. Speaking of brief, let me wrap this post up because my right wrist is killing me thanks to one of my dojo mates :-)


Placement of thoughts are VERY important. Remember, Trolls do lurk amongst us, and they would defintely welcome an opportunity to clown you and us for what we say. Didn't think you were, but had to make sure that it was made clear what you were saying for the benefit of the others who are reading this thread not having to deal with the possiblity of a Troll filling up this thread with garbage.

:wave:

Mia-Ryu
14th October 2002, 19:07
It is sooooo refreshing to "meet" another woman pursuing this exquisite path and making the same discoveries.

Cady

Same here!! It's very rare in my experience, therefore, I make it a point to encourage women I meet in the dojo to stick around for the good stuff and not to get frustrated.


........ but it is just that most Jujutsu practioners I've met are way too laxed and not deliberate enough when they slap or use some other distracting atemi. They just want to jump into applying a joint lock which is a no-no in the real world. I just prefer to hit multiple times (when possible) to set up a joint lock or throw.

I agree with this 100%. I can't even count the number of times students will attempt this. Since I am still learning, I always have to catch myself and make sure I am correctly shocking the attacker. My personal favorite has always been groin/ throat/ or eyes :D


We train full speed, aiming for the target. If our partner doesn't get out the way, we pull the punch enough to avoid badly hurting them, but will still tap them where it would have impacted.

When we work with beginners, we tend to ease up on them just a bit, but when they have more experience, we definately go full force, especially on the higher ranking students. I can't even count the number of times I have clocked other students in the face or with the bat (hehehe, not to mention how many times I have gotten clocked). We do of course pull our punches a bit if it becomes necessary, but full force is the way to go. As a matter of fact, if someone doesn't attack me full force, it looks bad and I defend bad. Being that I am not as muscular as my fellow students, I can not fake a technique by "muscleing" through it, so I am FOREVER repremanding anyone who goes easy on me by not attacking full on.


let me wrap this post up because my right wrist is killing me thanks to one of my dojo mates :-)

Speaking of going full force, Tyrone, I feel your pain!! About 3 weeks ago, I attacked my head Sensei and he did a terrific kotogeishi and took me down to the floor. Only problem was that I was very slow in going down (behaved like someone would in the street) and he came more then close to a nice clean dislocation or even worse. Thankfully he pulled it just a bit in the end. Still hasn't completeely healed. Moral of the story: I attacked very well and he defended a little to well. It was my fault for not moving fast enough to protect myself.