children black belts ?

[Melbourne]

what are peoples views on children black belts ?

what do you think the minimum age should be, bit open ended ? but cut me some slack with regards to conditions eg time training etc ?

also if you think that children shoulden't get their BBelt before say for example, (pulling an age out of the air), 15 then would you take on students aged 5 IF they could aquire the said BB skill level by the time they were say 10 and thus leavig a 5 yr "gap" ?

Also is it the BB skill that children shouldn't have or the physical/actual BB it's self ?

Personaly i don't take students under age 15 unless there is an older family member training as well, but that is only my preference

regards
Craig Guest

[Oni]

Just curious...are you asking this specifically of Ninjutsu...or of MA in general? If it is a general question probably be better to move it to the members lounge.

[shinbushi]

I have yet to promote someone under 18 but if I did they wold receive a junior or kodomo shodan which would either be dark blue or black with a stike through it. (Century sells one with either a red or white stripe, trying to decide).

[Melbourne]

Sorry Oni,

Specificaly of Ninjutsu

regards
Craig Guest

[Oni]

Originally posted by Melbourne
Sorry Oni,

Specificaly of Ninjutsu

regards
Craig Guest

No worries...I just wanted to make sure your question reached its intended audience.

In the Quest Centers youth black belts are awarded a black belt with a white stripe through it in the manner mentioned above by Shinbushi.

Due to the age groups in the various programs I think 10 is probably the youngest someone could possibly make it to this level. This would have to be someone that started almost as soon as they could and were very devoted to their training. I think 11-13 is probably more likely for most of the youth that continue to train.

[Ka1yama]

How do you train young people to be black belts? Do you teach them the same information as adults? I don't work with children besides myself and am curious. Do you teach them kata, or just try to impart general skills and knowledge? I ask because every dojo I have seen that teaches children tends to "water-down" their childrens' class training. (with good reason, do you think it is wise to have someone only 7 years old doing atemi- maki) Does black belt for a child mean the same a black belt for an older person?
Neil Stewart

[Melbourne]

Thanks for replying everyone,

along with the initial questions i first posted. What are the differences between and adult BB and a say 14yr old BB.

Do you differenciate between the two or not ?

what are the parents roles in this three way realtionship.

Is their real comunication between yourself and the parent and the child with regards to progress and skill level, or is it just left up to you

regards
Craig Guest

[Oni]

I'll answer some of the questions soon...busy weekend ;)

[Melbourne]

Shinbushi

go the red as it matches the badge :-)


Oni
what percentage of students at where you train are under 18 years old ? also how are the classes split eg 5 to 13 , 13 till 18 or something like that or Primary school students , High school students etc

Also in your opinion would the dojo survive financialy with out the childrens classes ?

Thanks
Craig Guest

ps also anyone got any answers for Neils questions , which i think were right on the nail

[Oni]

Originally posted by Melbourne
Shinbushi

go the red as it matches the badge :-)


Oni
what percentage of students at where you train are under 18 years old ? also how are the classes split eg 5 to 13 , 13 till 18 or something like that or Primary school students , High school students etc

Also in your opinion would the dojo survive financialy with out the childrens classes ?

Thanks
Craig Guest

ps also anyone got any answers for Neils questions , which i think were right on the nail

Ok...a few quick answers...I have been very busy as of late so haven't had time to sit down and reply ;) Starting in this post...as of right now we have NO children at my dojo. I expect this to change as we are new...but thus far we have had a surge of adults come in. At the school I trained at in tampa the percentage of adults was much larger as well. We had two age 'youth class' age groups...4-5, and 6-7. From 8-17 they were considered 'youth' but trained with other youth in the adult classes. The others were two seperate classes each with between 10-20 children. The 4-5 year olds did not work together, but were instead 'attacked' by adult coaches and trainers. The 6-7 year olds did a combination of both...with working 'together' being a very special thing, and a test of their self-discipline. After graduating from the 6-7 class they joined the adult class...but worked with either other youth, or with our helper team. By the time they had gone through the 4-5 and 6-7 classes they generally had pretty decent self-discipline skills, as well as physical abilities to work with partners, etc.

We are currently working on a new program however that would be from 5 - 10 years of age. The material covered is pretty wide including taisabaki concepts, striking, kamae, basic parts of techniques along with a lot of games and 911, stranger/danger type concepts. In the class the youth will not work with one another...but instead will work with adult trainers/coaches.

Truthfully I think I will end up with some combination of the old ideas as well as the new.

In response to Neils 'watering down'...in general if a technique had 3-4 steps including an escape and reattack of some sort...the youth would mostly work on the escape and run concepts. If there was a reattack it would be short, quick, and outta there! Of course certain concepts such as throat shots and chokes were generally left out. A lot would depend on the particular students as well...some of my little ones were suprisingly mature and DARN good ;) Once they went beyond the younger oriented classes they worked pretty much the same material as the adults...with a few modifications here and there.

I think communication with the parents is very important, as is communication with the students teacher and/or principal. As part of their 'testing' they had to bring signed paperwork in from their teacher(s) letting us know how they were doing...not necessarily in regards to grades (although that as well...depended on parent focus)...but attitude and so forth. We also talk to the parents and find out if the concepts are coming out at home. We would do things like ask the kids what they had done at home that week to demonstrate their self-discipline or respect. This again was primarily in the 4-5 and 6-7 classes. Once they hit the next phase the parents are still as involved...just in a different manner. Less 'in the class' and more, "so how is John doing at home?" after class.

Difference between youth and adult BB? Most of the time I think it is attitude...the kids rarely take it as seriously (although this is CERTAINLY not set in stone). They are generally more playful. From a skilled perspective however I have seen BB kids in the 10 - 15 age group that rock. I think a black belt 'can' mean the same for some kids as some adults...as I think that some adults have more of a 'childish' attitude concerning their belts than some youth I have met...and any combination therein. Age does not necessarily equate to wisdom, or to 'meaningfulness'.

Anyway...hope I have touched on most of the questions poised. I know this post is a bit scattered...I blame it on lack of sleep ;) If you want any clarification on any of the above please fire away.

[Kagetora]

Greetings.......

This is what we in Nindo Ryu.

If a minor is less than 13 years old at the time he/she starts training, they go under the shodan ho program. Normal training time is about 2.5 to 3 years for a shodan. They learn the protocole without the weapons. This is done this way to comply with local law. Under this program they get their promotions but the highest rank the child can achive is shodan ho. The full shodan test in not offer until the child reach age 16. As they aproach 16, them, the weapons protocole is introduce and any time after his/her 16th birthday, they can request the shodan test.

Shodan Ho minors continue to attend the dojo and serve as jr. assistants, helping the sensei with other childrem. They are not charge any fees until they go back to full training status.