View Full Version : Anyone heard of this "Real Aikido?"
BC
16th October 2002, 22:28
Has anyone heard of this aikido "style", organization or people?
http://www.uscra.info/
Jay Bell
16th October 2002, 23:04
Here's the World site:
WCRA (http://www.wcra.co.yu/index_e.html)
Peter H.
16th October 2002, 23:23
Never heard of them.
Other than the picture on the front page of uscra.info, which looks like it's somewhere between Shomen-uchi from our Aiki Taiso and a Tai Chi move called parting the Horses Mane, it looks about like regular, everyday, non-"Real" Aikido I've ever seen.
Batemanb
17th October 2002, 05:21
Originally posted by Jay Bell
Here's the World site:
WCRA (http://www.wcra.co.yu/index_e.html)
I have seen this site before, there was a thread on it previously, brought up by Ubaldo if I remember correctly, although it may have been on AJ, there was also some debate about the video clips.
Mike Collins
17th October 2002, 05:58
Looks like Aikikai with a Yoshinkai twist to me. The sword stuff looked like he was raising his shoulder with each cut, but I don't know if that's particularly bad. Seems like a poor habit in taijutsu, but sword? I don't know. There was some interesting ninin gake further down the video links list.
SILVERSURFER
17th October 2002, 06:26
i have seen him in a aikido seminar which was held in greece.
I don't know much about aikido but i think he is very good!!
But it is not sth different from traditional aikido.
MarkF
17th October 2002, 08:38
If you understand the mind of osensei Phil Porter you can pretty much gauge this style of aikido.
The USMAA is featured widely on the local pages and the founder and other "masters" have been inducted into Porter's Hall of Fame. Also consider the question asked of Porter of the reason so many people are in the HOF, he said (paraphrased) "I believe every [martial artist] should be in the hall of fame no matter how small their contribution may be, it is a contribution and it should be so recognized."
This, of course, depends on proper payment, generally the first thing you see in the requirements of membership in the USMAA. Bringing students from one's dojo to the annual field trips/seminars and paying the fees for them, also plays a role.
Now all these people may be just as they claim, I have no idea, but it still must be considered.
It is a shame, though, that one must go through any organization for personal credit and standing in the MA community. Today, it is probably a good idea to accept these certificates and put them in the closet, and when one meets another in the community, why you can say you have something like that, too.
Most only need the certain aikido organization's certification of rank and experience with permission to teach so it is probably the only thing which actually needs to be on the dojo wall, other than the usual adornments of said dojo.
****
That said, I do know some very good and responsible people who are members of the USMAA so, as I said, it must be *considered* it need not be the final word on the subject.
Two cents.
Mark
Sam
17th October 2002, 09:25
Personally, I would be very wary of self-appointed shihans of their own style. The word "professor" also sounds a warning bell to me. Not sure about the blue gi-top with the hakama either.
Qasim
17th October 2002, 17:58
Originally posted by SILVERSURFER
i have seen him in a aikido seminar which was held in greece.
I don't know much about aikido but i think he is very good!!
But it is not sth different from traditional aikido.
You can't be the Silver Surfer, I'm the REAL Silver Surfer! :mst: :wave:
Chuck.Gordon
17th October 2002, 18:35
OK, I got this far and stopped:
"Vladimir,O'Sensei Philip Porter,Michael ..."
Chuck
Steven Miranda
18th October 2002, 23:22
This school was brought up once before. On it, it says the following:
Master Vracarevic received advanced training for the
second time in Japan in 1993. He received a seminar certificate from the late Gozo Shioda Sensei (10th Dan Yoshinkan) as a confirmation that great master Shioda acknowledged Real Aikido art.
I wrote directly to Yoshinkan honbu dojo and inquired back when Ubaldo asked about this group and they stated that at no time did Shioda Kancho make such an endorsement. What he received was a participation certificate that EVERYONE who attended the clinic got.
Sounds like a topic for Bad Budo to me.
Phil Farmer
22nd October 2002, 21:34
I have a video tape of the 1992 Friendship Demonstration of Daito Ryu and most of what is done in the video clips for this "Real Aikido" are done by many of those artists. Is it real because they use a variety of pinning techniques at the end? Then my art, Yoseikan, is the "real" real aikido. Point is, a good martial artist doesn't have to be better than anyone but himself (or herself). Looks like another attempt to make one art better than another.
Greg Jennings
23rd October 2002, 15:34
I have a friend that trained in a "Real Aikido" dojo for a while. My knowledge is second hand, but the feeling I got was that the technical repertoire is aikido with a mix of other arts thrown in.
The important impression that I took away from my e-mails with my friend is that the cultural/societal atmosphere prevalent where "Real Aikido" is practiced has changed the training atmosphere.
That in no way addresses the over-stated credentials issue.
Best Regards,
2maz
3rd November 2002, 15:13
The name alone has a big warning sign on it. Taking a martial art, changing it and thus taking it away from it's original idea, and then calling it real? Saying what, O'senseis original was only for pretend? I'm thinking of starting my own real taekwondoo and real kung fu, is that ok?
Usagi
3rd November 2002, 21:57
Vracrarevic's Real Aikido has a good method and althrought i dislike the "technical" aproach to AiKiDo, i must say that it is easy to teach without compromising the quality of the teachings (excelent basics).
In his page there is a lot of misinformation (some of then seem to have been used for self appraising).
Aside from my "cold impartial judgement"on the pratical aspect, i HATE THE NAME REAL AIKIDO:mad:
It is stupid and agressive towards all aikidoka.
But his work appears to be serious...:rolleyes:
ChrisHein
11th November 2002, 23:39
why, if people stand weird do they think it's powerful. i don't think standing like a jerk makes your aikido any better! I don't even know what "real' Aikido is, my bet is neather dose this guy. Aikido is good theropy, however no one who dose only aikido can fight, if thats what is ment by real, then it died with o-sensei, sence then we have only had wannabes.
Chris Hein
Iwama shodan
PRehse
12th November 2002, 00:26
Chill Chris;
I have the strange feeling that the name does not sound half so bad in Serbian, direct translations suck.
The culture and environment that he's in also might have something to do with it.
Be careful - I know several people that do just Aikido that can fight very well. Your Aikido might be limited, mine is, but ... well its all in the training.
Originally posted by ChrisHein
why, if people stand weird do they think it's powerful. i don't think standing like a jerk makes your aikido any better! I don't even know what "real' Aikido is, my bet is neather dose this guy. Aikido is good theropy, however no one who dose only aikido can fight, if thats what is ment by real, then it died with o-sensei, sence then we have only had wannabes.
Chris Hein
Iwama shodan
ChrisHein
12th November 2002, 06:54
Show me some one who is grate at aikido, I mean the best of aikidoka, and if thats all he dose, and he gits in a fight with a fighter, i'll show you a broken aikidoka. I really wish some one could show me an awesome Aikido guy who can fight, buy they just don't exist!
chris hein
shodan iwama ryu :toot:
PRehse
12th November 2002, 09:10
Originally posted by ChrisHein
Show me some one who is grate at aikido, I mean the best of aikidoka, and if thats all he dose, and he gits in a fight with a fighter, i'll show you a broken aikidoka. I really wish some one could show me an awesome Aikido guy who can fight, buy they just don't exist!
chris hein
shodan iwama ryu :toot:
2maz
12th November 2002, 09:20
And once again a thread has left the original topic in favor of the meaningless and childlike pissing contest "My martial art is better than yours". Shouldn't that matter have been settled by now?
PRehse
12th November 2002, 09:31
I know he's a troll and a young troll at that - but he did say show me.
Every single Shihan I have ever met was young once - they don't just magically appear on the stage and some were full of piss and vinager at the time. I know at least a couple who went out to see if the stuff really worked, sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't.
I even know a few hard cases that used to brawl all the time without studying any martial arts and then came to Aikido because they started getting old and sensible.
The guy in the picture is the best Aikidoist I have ever seen but that's my opinion. Chiba is the second. Stories abound of both men.
Originally posted by 2maz
And once again a thread has left the original topic in favor of the meaningless and childlike pissing contest "My martial art is better than yours". Shouldn't that matter have been settled by now?
Guts
13th November 2002, 04:36
Who is that in the picture? He looks strong.
Guts
13th November 2002, 04:54
Wait, is that Tomiki Shihan?
Mike Collins
13th November 2002, 05:13
Ya gotta tell us. Who is that?
Jack B
13th November 2002, 15:33
It's Nariyama Shihan of JAA hombu, Shodokan in Osaka, in his younger days.
Looks like he's doing Aigamae-ate (Irimi-nage) in tanto shiai... or it could be Tai-otoshi :D
PRehse
14th November 2002, 00:19
Bingo Jack.
Although it might be Embu rather than Shiai - I'll have to ask but I think you are right
For those interested there are a couple of articles featuring the man and his dojo, along with Kenji Tomiki at the AikidoJounal website. He's mellowed some but I still wouldn't want to mess with him.
Kenji Tomiki hand picked the guy as his successor - said he had animal like movement.
Originally posted by Jack B
It's Nariyama Shihan of JAA hombu, Shodokan in Osaka, in his younger days.
Looks like he's doing Aigamae-ate (Irimi-nage) in tanto shiai... or it could be Tai-otoshi :D
rupert
14th November 2002, 03:37
Originally posted by ChrisHein
...I really wish some one could show me an awesome Aikido guy who can fight, buy they just don't exist!
chris hein
shodan iwama ryu
So why are you studying Aikido? - I note you are shodan. Are you saying your teacher is no good?
Rupret Atkinson
Sam
14th November 2002, 10:28
It looks like Nariyama Shihan's uke is holding a bokken. It which case I would think it is the technique from the goshin-no-kata. Itsmust be aigamae ate but starts with the hanmi posture and then a shomenuchi effects the aigamae ate.
Jack B
14th November 2002, 15:14
You may be right; from the pic I figured it to be a shiai tanto, but uke seems to be holding it with both hands and it is angled toward the camera. Good catch.
Tomiki trained quite a number of good budoka and good fighters. His stated goal (in the context of the 60's) was "to paint in the eyes of the paper tiger." Chris Hein's sentiment about some aikidoka is not new, although it is always contentious. As was said on another thread, anyone who's serious has done cross-training/testing, and it can validate and strengthen your aikido. Aikido (at least as I have been taught) teaches how the techniques that are common to many martial arts system work. We practice hitting the sweet spot. Where we sometimes fail is in not knowing what to do when we miss the sweet spot.
We learn by failure. When you attempt a technique with strength and speed, it either works or doesn't based on whether you guessed right at the non-strength elements (timing, blending). Eventually you learn what doesn't work and only do what does, at which time you can dispense with inefficient use of power to cover these gaps. In the meantime you should learn how to recover from failure. The effectiveness of a system overall is basically how well it teaches this, since most practitioners will not be at the pinnacle.
ChrisHein
14th November 2002, 23:35
So why are you studying Aikido? - I note you are shodan. Are you saying your teacher is no good?
Rupret Atkinson
well, i'm not studing aikido right now, and it's not that aikido dosen't have alot to offer, it's just that i haven't met any aikidoka who can fight. and that is a good part of learning martial arts you know. Yea my teacher is an awesome aikidoka, but he would never beat me in a fight!
chris hein
shodan iwama ryu
PRehse
15th November 2002, 00:08
It still looks like a tanto to me - I will try to ask the man himself on Sunday.
Chris;
Don't know you or your teacher but there is an old saying. "Never take on an old man until you find out what sort of young man he was." You might be bigger, stronger, younger than me for example, but if we fought (I mean really fought) I wouldn't be placing bets.
There is a story I heard of Nariyama and one of his students a big bruiser who kept on telling the much smaller Nariyama that Aikido doesn't work. Finally after a drinking session they guy took a swing at Nariyama who put him down and then threw all the dojo Aikido out the window. Literally booted the guy into submission. The next day the guy showed up at the dojo with a black face, Nariyama asked him if he was ok, the guy said yes and training continued. The bruiser teaches Shodokan Aikido in Paris.
Nariyama by the way is a pleasent man and great company. If your teacher? is an awsome Aikidoist then I would be careful making assumptions.
Mike Collins
15th November 2002, 01:51
I'm guessing there area great many Aikidoists who knew how to fight long before they ever heard of Aikido. I wonder Chris, do you suppose that we forgot how, once we started doing Aikido?
It may well be your experience that some Aikidoists can't fight, but don't paint the whole world with your little brush, and for goodness sake, use some new colors.
Qasim
15th November 2002, 04:23
Originally posted by ChrisHein
well, i'm not studing aikido right now, and it's not that aikido dosen't have alot to offer, it's just that i haven't met any aikidoka who can fight. and that is a good part of learning martial arts you know. Yea my teacher is an awesome aikidoka, but he would never beat me in a fight!
chris hein
shodan iwama ryu
Wow, what arrogance. I don't know you, but first impressions mean alot.
ChrisHein
15th November 2002, 20:22
I think it's funny to see how fast so many replies come out when some one says they can beat their teacher up. Especially when you don't know what I do, my teacher, or me. I could understand if I said my teacher was a week or stupid, and I didn't pay him the courtesy I owe him for teaching me. But infact I preficited my statment with the fact that i belived that his aikido skills, were awesome. I talking badly about my teacher; this isn’t' the case friends, I simply said he couldn't beat me in a fight, that’s it a fight, I didn’t' say he was an inferior person to me, I only said he couldn't beat me in a knock down drag out. If I had said I could beat up my ikebana teacher, the only response I would have got would be "why would you do that?” Something tells me there is some strange teacher worship going on out there, and I think people had better be asking themselves some questions.
I'm guessing their area great many Aikidoists who knew how to fight long before they ever heard of Aikido. I wonder Chris, do you suppose that we forgot how, once we started doing Aikido?
And mike I’m not talking about people who know how to take care of them selves already and look into aikido for some more answers, I’m worried about the people who can't fight never could and are now being milked, cause they are "learning martial arts so they surly must be able to fight". I'm just reporting what I see, and out of all the people studying aikido I have seen in the last 6 years, the only ones who could fight were those a: naterally dispositioned, b: studied other things.
Chris Hein
Shodan Aikido:wave: :wave:
Sam
16th November 2002, 11:37
I have in the past come across people who were less experienced than me in Aikido, but extremely skillful in another martial art. I would be extremely suprised to learn that they even thought about whether they could beat me up - I doubt it even crossed their mind.
"With ability comes humility"
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