View Full Version : Suddenly appearing same Glossary !

Filip Poffe
21st October 2002, 23:13
Dear all,

It seems that the people of the American Ninjutsu/Iaido Training Association like to copy complete content from other websites.

An example : check out this Glossary which I typed in coming from the book "Ninpo Secrets" from Grandmaster Tanemura Shoto here :

And ... have a look at "their glossary" :

Not to mention the all-saying sentence "More will be added as I get the time to do so!" - better had been : "More will be added as I get the chance to steal it from another site !" :look: :look:

They even forgot to erase the meaning of the word Shoto :D :D
It seems they are Bujinkan-related people, aren't they ?

Mr. Robert Stevens from the Baltimore Budokan Dojo also
wrote "by accident" completely the same glossary :
But he was clever enough to erase the meaning of the word Shoto
and moreover, he is going to sell a book in the near future about it !

What a true persons !

22nd October 2002, 01:02
If you have a problem with a person stealing stuff from you,contact them and let them know.

Public posting of a personal issue is just straight wrong.

I feel for your "loss", but a public forum is no place to resolve your differnces with the offending parties.

It makes you look immature.:eek:

Juan Perez
22nd October 2002, 01:23
Mr. Chrenka,

Mr. Filip Poffe's posting was not personal, except for maybe his last comment, as he was merely stating something that was factual, as he researched it. If he was wrong in his conclusions,then, debate that openly, just as openly as you, or this organization (if there is no relation between the two of you) have set up the website. From his track record on E-Budo, I don't think Mr. Poffe is out here making false claims just to get "popular" out of it. God Bless.

Robert Meier
22nd October 2002, 06:40

" It seems they are Bujinkan-related people, aren't they ?
http://www.anitashidoshi.net/index1a.html "

So true, so true. This can only happen to Bujinkan people because they are all born in the Ura of their second twenties, right, Filip S. ok

Genbukan people would never do so ( I call it steeling ) except as kyojitsu tenkan translated as a sweet flower heart. In full concience, when they share a hotel-room in Kitchener with you and tell you that they have something in common with you, so for example the love to a Japanese lady. (Just hope not the same one).
In such a case it might happen that they donīt pay for the long-distance-call telephone bill they used and disappear the next day like real Genbukan Ninjaīs. Only more than a hundred Canadian Bucks. Not that I wanted to go to Japan for at least a decade as well, but just are a kind under zero. U see Iīm a rich man, donīt you.

Yeah, thatīs pretty true. Maybe Toni is so clever to buy a real Villa (big house, German term) in Japan with my money now and can rent me a room inside again when I come in a few years for a longer period of time, hehe. Very philosophic, isnīt it. ( "Isnīt it" is also a dance Bar in Osaka; highly to recommend from my point of view.)

Well, just wondering if he used the money for a long-distance call to Japan or just common telephone-sex. But maybe doesnīt matter.
I understand very well, really. But at least I am usually very drunk when I do or donīt act in full concience, neh.

So needless to say that I was overhappy when he was gone and I had the double-room all for myself. Nooh, I didnīt "rent" a beautiful lady for that evening. I was only happy with my privacy and that I could watch the films on TV I wanted to watch.

They have private-pay-TV-channel there, did you know that? Not that I would use something like that, you know. Too luxurious and expensive, know what I mean. And anyway devilish. But for the people who like that, regardless of which house or family, pretty convenient I guess, but as I said. Treasure .. I mean L U X U R Y for rich Snobs, isnīt it.

Kind regards,

(B) A U M :p

Ommmmhhh, wrumm wrumm, RM

23rd October 2002, 01:35
Legal, or personal doesn't really matter to me.
(Kind of hard to copywrite a glossary though.)

Question is, why are you bringing it up in a public forum?
Why did you not take it to them directly?
Why did you not ask them to stop using your "stolen" content?

Like I stated in my first post, I believe you are correct and they are wrong, I just don't agree with your methods.
It looks like an attempt to discredit the organization instead of the offending parties.

To me, your method of getting back is almost as bad as the offending parties foul of "reusing" your content.

Shojin's response just backs up my orginal assumption that the original post was am attempt to discredit the offending parties organization instead of attempting to set the offending parties straight. His obvious disdain for the Bujinkan is thinly veiled at best...
Doesn't he realize his own teacher's background? As much as he seems unwilling to admit it Tenemura sensei was indeed once part of the Bujinkan orginization. I assume he does realize the Tenemura sensei does teach some of the same schools that Hatsumi sensei does? Seeing as Tenemura sensei was once Hatsumi sensei's student?
I realize the Tenemura sensei has since long gone on his own path, but Bujinkan members would have a hard time stealing techniques and kata from Genbukan if Tenemura sensei learned them during his time with the Bujinkan! I may be off base on that one as the RVD techniques described in his post might be from a Genbukan school not shared with the Bujinkan, but if it is I think stealing is not a word that should be used.

I will refrain from assuming that all Genbukan members are like Shojin and do harbor some respect for other martial arts schools.

Sorry if your disagree with my opinion. Just stating the facts how I see them.

Also, rolling your eyes at complete strangers tends to be construed as an act of extreme rudeness. Why do something on the web you wouldn't do in real life?

George Kohler
23rd October 2002, 04:25
Originally posted by Shinkuri
Legal, or personal doesn't really matter to me.
(Kind of hard to copywrite a glossary though.)

The glossary comes from the book Ninpo Secrets written by Tanemura sensei. It was copyrighted in 1992. Filip Poffe sempai recieved permission from Tanemura sensei to use it for his website.

How would you like if someone, not in your organization, and without permission, copied a section from Hatsumi sensei's book Essence of Ninjutsu?

23rd October 2002, 06:37
Sorry Richard you are way off base on me.

If you remember my original post was in refernce to Filip's original post, plainly asking why he is airing his own personal legal isssues on a public forum?

Answer that question!

No one has answered my original questions. Why?

Man, like I give a crap what Genbukan teaches and NO I don't think Genbukan is an offspring of the Bujinkan (hence the Tenemura sensei has gone off on his path long ago bit!) Never said it.

Agenda? My only agenda was raising a question why would Filip would post such a flame-worthy post in the first place.
What was the purpose of the original post?

My take on it was to discredit the orginization the offending parties belong to. Why else would he post it publicly. Like I said if he has legal issues with them take it to them!
Airing it public makes him look petty.
Your follow-up response just confirmed my previous assumption.

A lot of "look at what these silly Bujinkan people did now, went and plagerized Tenmura sensei, when will those goofballs ever learn!" Sigh! roll your eyes! "I am so happy I know better than those silly Bujinkan people!"

That is the attitude you are projecting.

Where did I say stealing in the first post?
Some Bujinkan people having been ripping off Genbukan for years

rip off = stealing

go grab a thesarus and reread your own post man.

Congratulations on Tenemura sensei having all those wonderful other schools. I bet you learn alot from those other schools.
Keep learning what you are learning. Like I said I don't give a crap what the Genbukan train in.

As for Bujinkan people who buy Genbukan books and teach what they read and copy Genbukan syllabuses, doesn't sound like they are training in the Bujinkan, maybe they should join the Genbukan.

As for RVD I don't know the man so I couldn't possibly comment on his actions. What I do know is... RVD does not = All of the Bujinkan. The only person person qualified to represent the Bujinkan is Hatsumi sensei himself, a fact that you and Filip seem to be forgeting or ignoring. Oh by the way...my orginal post...

I may be off base on that one as the RVD techniques described in his post might be from a Genbukan school not shared with the Bujinkan, but if it is I think stealing is not a word that should be used.

odd how you missed that part...

As for background I have been lurking here for about 2-3 months have read all the ninpo posts from the beginning including yours Richard and I recognize bias when I see it. But, What should I expect from a Genbukan run forum.

My only issue is with Filip posting what looks like an attempt to publicly discredit the Bujinkan because of the lack of common sense of some of its members.

Sorry man, not looking for a fight, or trying to discredit Genbukan, Like I said I really don't care about it. You are the one making it personal.
So my response...
Basically, I think are condesending and rude. So keep rolling your eyes and winking at me. After all you obviously know a lot more about Bujinkan that I do.

Also, thanks for your psychoanalysis of my personal demons and issues . If you don't mind I think I will seek a second opinion.

John Anderson
23rd October 2002, 11:29
Originally posted by George Kohler

How would you like if someone, not in your organization, and without permission, copied a section from Hatsumi sensei's book Essence of Ninjutsu?

I'm not in the Bujinkan so the above quote doesn't really apply to me however, I do find the fact that it was posted in defence of Mr Poffe's position to be amusing in light of the fact that anyone who visits Mr Poffe's websites can find a large number of illustrations from Hatsumi Sensei's copyrighted publications including the book which is mentioned above. In fact, one of the pictures which Mr Poffe has used from "Essence of Ninjutsu" has been cropped to remove Hatsumi Sensei from it - people can make up their own minds why this was done.

I also find it amusing if rather baffling that on his web-page, Mr Poffe (who has recently posted here on a couple of occasions about copyright matters) even has the nerve to claim that he and Mr Tanemura hold the copyright to these images.

As Mr Poffe has taken the moral high ground with regard to copyright infringement, I wonder if he would care to confirm whether or not he has obtained permission from the copyright holder to use these images on his page and if he hasn't, could he please explain how his own behaviour is any different from that which he complains about in his own post.

John Lindsey
23rd October 2002, 11:56
Just a quick note, but there seems to be 3 pics on Filip's site that were taken by Hatsumi S. and thus would be copyrighted. Another photo has been cropped to remove him.

John Anderson
23rd October 2002, 13:06
Originally posted by John Lindsey
Just a quick note, but there seems to be 3 pics on Filip's site that were taken by Hatsumi S. and thus would be copyrighted. Another photo has been cropped to remove him.

A person doesn't have to physically take a photo to own the copyright on it - on Mr Poffe's two sites there are a number of pictures of Hatsumi Sensei training with Takamatsu Sensei which presumably Hatsumi owns the copyright on, so I think that your figure of three is out quite a bit and also, I can see at least two pictures which have been cropped to remove Hatsumi Sensei as opposed to your one.

Regardless of the numbers involved, even if just one of the pictures used violates someone elses copyright then Mr Poffe is being a bit hypocritical here and should get of his high horse.

Dom C
23rd October 2002, 15:21

you wrote: "I received my Genbukan tapes (original series YEARS ago while in the Bujinkan from Bujinkan people who got them and taped them and spread them around!"

Just for the record,
a few months ago when you were selling videos you offered to sell me Genbukan videos even after i told you i was in the Bujinkan.
It seems you are one of those guys spreading the syllabus.
Is it a bad thing? i dont think so. Just thought i'd do my part to stir it up.

Jeffery Brian Hodges
23rd October 2002, 15:48
TO Bujinkan members: Please do not refer to Tanemura sensei as "Tenemura" or "Tanemura San", one is incorrect spelling and the other to be considered disrespectful, and that from Soke himself. I thankyou and I appreciate that.

To Filip: Seems like an unfortunate situation, the person in question obviously took from your website. I would send them an e-mail immediately.

To Everyone: We are all part of the same lineage when you insult one or the other it damages the art as a whole. Everyone has their own opinions, but no need to do it publically. We should spend more time training than jacking our jaws or typing. Running your mouth can get you into alot of trouble. How do I know? I have experience :)

John Lindsey
23rd October 2002, 17:20
, so I think that your figure of three is out quite a bit

This is probably true since I have not gone thru his complete website. I should have said "at least 3" and I will leave it up to the website owner to review his pics. The three that I did see were obviously from Hatsumi S's collection and should be removed IMHO.

But, has he given permission to all the Bujinkan sites to use these same and similar pics on their sites? Should the same standard of "respect" for the copyright be applied to everyone, regardless of their art?

23rd October 2002, 18:00
Ugh...only read the first couple of posts days ago and had no idea what it would turn into. Don't see much to do with Ninjutsu here...but I do see lots of politics floating around ;) Anyone want to continue discussing this take it to PM. Anyone have a problem with ANY of the websites in question here? Take it up with their respective owners.

BTW...this forum is NOT Genbukan run. E-Budo itself is owned by a Genbukan member...but a majority of the forums have nothing to do with Ninjutsu period. The moderator of THIS forum has never trained with the Genbukan in any way.

Next topic please.