www.terroristsbeware.com

[Benjamin Peters]

Hi guys got a couple of questions:

(1) have you seen the video(s) available on www.terroristsbeware.com ? Thoughts on techniques shown?; and
(2) what are some of the major official counter-terrorist groups around the world?

[George Kohler]

Haven't seen the website yet, so can't give you any opinions on the videos.

Here are some of the well known units that specialize on Counter-Terrorism:

Great Britian - SAS
US - Delta Force and Naval Special Warfare Development Group (aka Dev Group)
France - GIGN
Germany - GSG9
Israel - Sayeret Mat'Kal

[Bambi]

and occasionally terrorism too :)

[Brently Keen]

Oisin,

Perhaps you fail to understand or make distinctions regarding the following:

1. the definition of terrorism,

2. the purpose and objectives of terrorism,

3. and the intended targets of terrorism.

IMHO, comments such as you made above not only display ignorance/naivete, but also reflect insensitivity and disrespect towards those who serve their countries and fellowmen, not to mention the real victims of terrorism and their survivors.

To imply that those who serve and defend their countries in those special forces by fighting against terrorism are equally guilty of the same is to fail to make some very important distinctions. Particularly speaking, it shows a failure to discern between behavior that is not only morally & legally justifiable, but is also an acceptable and (sometimes) required responsibility of civic duty, and behavior that is OTOH, altogether irresponsible, unacceptable, and both morally & legally unjustifiable as well as incomprehensible to decent human beings everywhere.

While everyone is entitled to their different views and opinions, I think that failure to make such important distinctions in behavior intentionally, suggests either support, sympathy, or tolerance of the evils of terrorism, or the complete lack of an objective moral compass upon which to make judgements concerning right and wrong - much less with which to form one's opinions and beliefs.

Now, I assume that you do not support or sympathize with terrorism, and that perhaps - you are convinced that violent resistance to terrorism (counter-terrorism) is somehow equally offensive, but I respectfully suggest that, however offensive it may seem, counter-terrorism is necessary, and it is not at all equivalent to, or anywhere near equally offensive as terrorism is.

Counter-terrorism's definition is not only different than that of terrorism, it is completely opposite and against it. The objective of terror is to disrupt peace and freedom and to seize control of a populace by creating and instilling paralyzing fear into their everyday lives - the objective of counter-terrorism is to defend the populace and secure peace and freedom. Therefore, it's function is primarily defensive, and it's purpose and objectives stand in total opposition to those of terrorism. More importantly, counter-terrorism's intended targets are by definition terrorists, not the general public, or innocent men, women, and children. For this reason, terrorism must be opposed/countered to preserve and protect society.

The alternative of non-resistance/opposition to evil is in reality aquiescence to that evil, because it eventually results in compliance and/or conformance with it. Likewise the failure to recognize and respond to terrorism effectively results in the same. Evil left unchecked and unrestrained will only lead to tyrannical blackmail, persecution, and oppression.

Our personal moral integrity, and ultimately our collective survival demands that we act decisively and uncompromisingly in response to terrorism, and indeed towards all forms of such evil. It is our collective moral and civic responsibility and duty to oppose and counter terrorism, doing so is completely counter to, and not at all complicit with terrorism. We would all do well to support, salute and bow in respect to those who put their lives on the line doing just that on our behalf.

Frankly I hope you'll reconsider your above statement.

Respectfully,

Brently Keen

PS: As clarification - my comments have nothing at all to do with the first post in this thread and the link provided. I have no comment at all to make with regards to the website or the videos of the "grandmaster" in question, imho they speak only for themselves - use your own discernment.

[tmanifold]

In Oisin's defence Two of the units have been accused of being a little overzealous in there duties. Both the SAS and The Isreali CT teams have been accused of terrorism in the locales in which they operate. Now, I have the greatest respect for the SAS and any CT team but I also understand that they have, on occasion, pushed the limits of there duties.

I think the main difference however, is they endangerment of civilians, especially women and children (although in many cases both women and children have become combatants). To use the Isreali and Palestine conflict as an example: The Isreali defence force has ceased to be defensive. They occupy an area and force everyone out. They are very aggresive in dealing with what they feel are threats to the Isreali state and are oftn villified by the left leaning people out there. However, the Palestinian groups will send a person in to a school bus with symtex strapped to their chest and blow up a bunch of kids. While I have some sympathy for their cause, every time they do something like that I support the Isrealis even more.

Lets take 9/11, for example. The attack on the pentagon, while devasting to Americans, can be justified in that it was a military target. However, the attacks on the trade center were acts of terrorism. The US would still be justified in retaliating for the attack but it would be with in the bounds of war. Soetimes there can be a fine line between Military and Civilian targets. It caused many problems in Vietnam as well as other conflicts around the world but terrorist as a rule do not come anywhere near the line nor do they seem to care that there is a line.

[Bambi]

jeez Brently, I post a sentence with a smiley at the end of it and you write a thesis. Is this a pet topic or something? :)

I'm not really in the mood to respond such a well thought out (and looong) post with a fitting reply about terrorism, state terrorism, counter terrorism and when what is justified. I'll just point out a few things


A) I can think of maybe half a dozen or a dozen people I've known who could have been defined as terrorists at some stage. my view of terrorists/terrorism is probably far less abstract than most peoples.

B)You're right, I don't have a handy moral compass that tells me who to cheer for or when its okay to deliberately target civillians.

C)I live in a country thats seen more acts of terrorism over a longer period than most other westen nations.

D)Many of these acts were committed or sponsored by a nation most people probably got pegged as a good guy in the crusade against terrorism.

I'm very far from being naive on the subject of what is and is'nt terrorism. Thanks to all of the above I'm utterly cynical about it which is why I made the first comment, albeit only as a light hearted quip. and no, I'm not ashamed of it or interested in reconsidering it, France, Britain Turkey and various other pillars of NATO have engaged in or sponsored terrorist activity over the years, I don't see any reason to perform a moral backflip and describe their activties as anything else

On a technical aside my understanding of counter terrorism is that it is not defensive , its very purpose, by defintion, is proactive as defensive measures are not very effective in countering guerilla tactics. IMO All to often its just an excuse for a govt to engage in the very activities which it deplores terrorists groups for. What a dirty, murky business this stuff is eh?? Still we would'nt have all them tom clancy books if it was'nt :)

[Soulend]

jeez Brently, I post a sentence with a smiley at the end of it and you write a thesis. Is this a pet topic or something?

I don't think smilies show up on Brently's computer, Bambi.

[paolo_italy]

Originally posted by George Kohler
Here are some of the well known units that specialize on Counter-Terrorism:

Great Britian - SAS
US - Delta Force and Naval Special Warfare Development Group (aka Dev Group)
France - GIGN
Germany - GSG9
Israel - Sayeret Mat'Kal

Hi,

In Italy (and we do have had a rich terroristic activity in our home land), the most famous are:

- GIS (Carabinieri - sort of civil/military police)
- NOCS (State Police)

There's also a web site that's not so bad: http://www.specwarnet.net/. Check it out!

And for the literature, I would have a good read with MCRP 3-02E "the individual's guide for understanding and surviving terrorism".

Just my two pennies...

Take care,

Paolo

[Soulend]

I got to meet with the CO of the local Carabinieri when I was in Naples in '95. Good unit. There was a civilian police officer that worked closely with them who was the best damn driver I've ever seen. Wending your way at high speed through Napoli streets is no joke. Apparently he had some kind of special license, having gone to some kind of police driving school. I don't think he batted an eye all the way to the NATO base at AFSouth, but I was clawing the upholstery and on a verge of a heart attack the whole way.

[paolo_italy]

:laugh: man I know what you mean!

[Bambi]

Soulend sed

I don't think smilies show up on Brently's computer, Bambi.

Damn. His pc must have its I.E security settings at puritan level. :D Thats a joke Brently, theres a smiley after it. honest.