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Hoshi_Ryu
18th November 2002, 14:06
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1585506187

I am definatly going to bid on these things! The price is good too.

poryu
18th November 2002, 15:07
HI

I wouldnt bother. they look home made and would cost about $3 to make(2)

get yourself some 6mm steel rod from a remote control airplane shop, cut to 6 in then grind a point on the end.

I pay about $2 for a rod in the Uk and I can get 4 out of it.

Karyu
19th November 2002, 05:04
Originally posted by poryu
HI
I wouldnt bother. they look home made and would cost about $3 to make(2)



Actually less than that, I sell mine for $1 to $2 each and they're much thicker than those shuriken. I'll be making some more soon hopefully, just need a new workbench.

Oh, and i'm pretty sure that seller is "Kenjiro" of neo ninja fame.

Hoshi_Ryu
19th November 2002, 13:11
Originally posted by poryu
HI

I wouldnt bother. they look home made and would cost about $3 to make(2)

get yourself some 6mm steel rod from a remote control airplane shop, cut to 6 in then grind a point on the end.

I pay about $2 for a rod in the Uk and I can get 4 out of it.


The description mentions a lot more work than that. He said that they were flat grounded with stones and normalized and hardened and tempered. And then they are polished. I know about how swords and knives are made so this guy sounds like he knows what hes doing.
There is a lot more work than sharpening a piece of metal with a grinder.

Rogier
19th November 2002, 13:53
do you really believe that the seller would start off at such a low price if he would have put that much work into it??

Karyu
19th November 2002, 14:58
$1 - $2 each. I couldn't charge $15 for three. I also noticed that those other shuriken are way too skinny to hold up to repeated throwing practice. Those things will be bent in no time.

Here's a pic. (and this is one i've been throwing...)

http://www.geocities.com/hamster_huey_24/shuriken2.html

Hoshi_Ryu
19th November 2002, 16:33
That bo shuriken looks nice Karyu. What kind of steel did you use for it? Can you take big orders like 15 or 20 of them? Please also give a description of how you made them. Maybe I might buy some from you instead.
But looking at that one Art of shurikenjutsu page they showed that the bo shuriken were about a quarter inch diameter or even thinner than that. I dont think the ebay shuriken would bend. I once grounded some from nails the same thickness and they did not bend.

Karyu
20th November 2002, 04:40
Originally posted by Shojin


I would like to buy some, please let me know when you will be selling more.



Hopefully pretty soon, i'll put a post up when I do.


They are made from regular carbon steel spike nails. I used to form the tips using hard and soft arkansas stones, but I found the results to be exactly the same using a circular grinder first crosswise, then lengthwise. They are hardened using a propane torch, then I quench them in peanut oil (i've heard people use motor oil, not a good idea), followed by reheating the tip to blue for tempering. As for big orders, I can make about 15 shuriken a day before my hands give out.



Originally posted by Hoshi_Ryu
But looking at that one Art of shurikenjutsu page they showed that the bo shuriken were about a quarter inch diameter or even thinner than that. I dont think the ebay shuriken would bend. I once grounded some from nails the same thickness and they did not bend.


Quite true, sometimes even thinner, but those were "one-time use" shuriken. If you're going to be throwing the same shuriken over and over, you want them a little thicker to hold up to the stress as the tips are more prone to shattering once they've been hardened. Also keep in mind that the tips will eventually dull and need to be resharpened (I use the sidewalk) so you need the extra girth to get more life out of the shuriken.

Hoshi_Ryu
20th November 2002, 15:19
I dont mean to be rude but you are not heating them correctly and nails are made of low carbon steel(in the 1010-1030 range). Nails are only good if you case harden them. Case hardening is putting a piece of low carbon steel into a airtight metal container(pipes are good) and loading something like bone charcoal or anything else that has a large content of carbon in there and leaving it in your forge for a couple hours. The carbon from the charcoal gets into the low carbon steel and makes it into a higher carbon steel.

But using a small propane torch to heat the tip wont get very far up from the point. And quenching in oil is not nessesary because only oil hardened tool steels like 01 suggest using oil.
Tempering is to ruduce stress after the quench so that the brittle hardened steel evens out and gets soft enough to use. You need to temper at 400+ degrees for most steels for about 2 hours. The high carbon ones require 550 to 600. You cant get a good even heat from holding a torch to the point for a couple minutes.

I still think you have a good business going for you though if you have the willpowder to do that much grinding. You should check over at www.swordforum.com and make yourself a good forge and buy some steel from the mill. Then you can forge your spikes instead of grinding them and make other neat items too. Forging is a beautiful thing once you get the gist of it. You should give it a try.

Karyu
21st November 2002, 05:41
Actually case hardening is a term that gets thrown around a lot, but really refers to the outer part of the metal being hardened with the interior remaining soft. For a senban shuriken this is preferred because of the entire outer surface being a striking point, requiring a "cushion" of sorts inside. However regards to bo shuriken, case hardening allows the tip to take and accept a set too easily due to the tapering nature of the point. A complete hardening of the point is the way to go, with brittleness not as much of a factor to to the stress of impact being directed from the point of the shuriken to the rear, which remains unhardened and able to absorb force.

I'm familiar with the procedure of carbonization of steel, as per the procedure you described, however the difficulty is that unless the steel has been re-smelted and mixed with carbon in a blast furnace, the carbon will not be fully permiated and equally distributed throughout the steel. Although it would help somewhat, it would not make much of a difference.

Heating 1095 tool steel to 1575 F (Red-Orange) is considered standard hardening for industrial use. The tempering must be done DIRECTLY after quenching (I use oil because it retards oxidation) because as soon as the metal cools the microcrystalline hardening begins to break down to the original degree of hardness. Tempering serves two purposes, first it locks the hardening in place and prevents it breaking down, and second it reduces the stress built up by the hardening process and thereby reduces brittleness. Proper tempering (as my grandfather taught me) occurs by immediately reheating the hardened area to approximately 400-500 degrees (blue) and allowing to air cool. Then process of putting in an oven for two hours is also acceptable, but much more time consuming and possibly unreliable.

Karyu
29th November 2002, 18:19
Just to let everyone know, i'm making shuriken again as well as shinobi-zue. Just send an inquiry to ninja_23@bellsouth.net.