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Lewis Christopher
23rd August 2000, 07:32
Since this is my first post I will give you some background. I am a sankyu in Judo and also studied Aikido for a time while in the military. Prior to that I reached the Shodan level in a striking art when I was a teenager (I am days away from 30 now.) I recently decided to take a break from Judo because I just felt really pressured by the whole tournament thing. I have read Kodokan Judo by prof. Kano and know the original basis for shiai. I have no interest in it. Before you think I am a wimp, I entered 3 tournament in the last year, got 2nd place in my division at the 99 state championships and out of the three tournaments came out with a total record of 5 and 6. I would fight anybody in the club, no matter their rank and I don't mind losing as long as I learn. I am a police officer and just want to study Judo because I love Japanese martial arts and want to learn something that is applicable to my job. I am also a certified PPCT instructor. It seems that the better I got, the more the teachers were pushing me into tournaments and seminars and quite honestly, I got fed up. One of the Sensei is a close friend and coworker and I know it hurt his feelings when I quit, but he was also the one doing the most pushing and riding if I missed class (once he told me that Judo was more important than going to my 4 year olds t-ball game.) I am now studying at a different style at a different school and I am not really happy there either. Any advice from the Sempai here would be greatly appreaciated.

Osoto2000
23rd August 2000, 21:55
Hi Lewis,
Now that I am forty I no longer wish to get invovled in Tournaments. I do however still get a lot of pleasure from teaching. My advice to you is find a a Sensei, who teaches Judo as a martial art and not only as a sport. Learning Judo as a MA can be very rewarding and enlighting. Keep looking I'm sure you will find what you seek.
Nothing is more important than supporting your kids, could be your sensei is trying to relive his missed oppertunities through you. Don't let yourself be used like that, make it clear to your collegue that your Judo is recreational and not combative. If he is a close friend he should accept this.

MarkF
24th August 2000, 11:10
Ray,
Don't you know about masters shiai? I know judoka in their seventies who are still fighting in the masters:)

Welcome to E-budo, Lewis!:wave:

Sounds as if you have some friend at that dojo. Don't ever Feel threatened like that. While Jigoro Kano did say that one must never stop training, there are a few caveats as well.

First of all, judo is not just going to the dojo twice a week. It is a lifestyle as well and can be practiced away from the dojo. That is always important to know. Secondly, he also made it clear to do it, "unless there was good reason to stop training." You have the prime reason. Family, and Kano said that family and dojo extended to each other.

One thing did catch my eye, though. Did you ever sit down and discuss this option, training for self-improvement (which had always been the primary goal; shai was secondary), self defense, kata, etc.? Your not a wimp because you are a good tournament fighter? Wow. Usually, that is what shiai people are called. Most don't think shiai has value; it does, but not everyone can or will, or even want to fight in shiai. This is your case and if your teacher cannot accept that, then yes indeed it is time to move on. Not all dojo are the same, as I tend to teach a more traditional style of judo, although you would be surprised if the unforseen happened, how well you would stand up. Tournaments or no, it is a complete combative sport, and art, in the same category as boxing. Have you done any Kodokan goshin jutsu in your dojo? If not, one must ask. Some assume everyone wants to compete, and while many do in my dojo, not all can. I have one handicapped (blind) student who does compete in blind tournaments, but they are rare, and so he loves randori, and for the same reason as you do. He has also taught me much about centering and "feeling" your way with a blindfold on. Ask your teacher to put one on and play randori with you. It is some confidence builder.

Anyway, Kodokan Judo was not really written by Kano. It is a manual which was released to the public in 1958, I believe(I have to check my copy to be sure), and though there are a few gems by Kano, most of it was written in committee. Kano died in 1938. There are many other books on judo, and some have detailed instruction in sword and other weapons training (try "Best Judo"). Look for a teacher who knows kata. And ask for his background, as well. A woman teacher is very good, as most women pass there dan grades by kata (you may have seen some wearing a black belt with the white stripe). So don't let one teacher spoil what was fun and possibly necessary for your work. International shiai sucks today, anyway, so if you do ever return, stick with the small invitationals sponsored by local dojo. My first days in judo (1963) I learned kyusho (power point grips and strikes (atemiwaza). They are out there, they just need to be found. For more on Classical Judo, go to http://www.kanosociety.org . New site so you will have to put up with some construction, but they are dedicated to this. Also try http://www.bstkd.com/judo.htm . Very good site in which to research your needs, and the people there are really nice. It is run by Kim Sol and his son Michael. They return email pronto, so ask them. Other than that, you have probably gone to http://judoinfo.com . It is a good, overall site, and the founder is a friend.

Anyway, in whatever you choose, stop by. Judo gets little respect it seems these days and your imput is welcome.

Good luck!

BTW: Another good book is "A Complete Guide to Judo" by Robert W. Smith. Very good for the history and tradition of judo, and another just for fun, but with a look back at martial arts in general is Martial Musings, by Robert. W. Smith. You can find some great reading material at Big Sky Judo Club. Anything by Donn Draeger, as well. All much superior in the classical judo department, and good reads. They have many (the link above BSTKD.com/judo).

Mark

Yamantaka
24th August 2000, 13:36
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Osoto2000
[B]"Hi Lewis,
My advice to you is find a a Sensei, who teaches Judo as a martial art and not only as a sport. Learning Judo as a MA can be very rewarding and enlighting. Keep looking I'm sure you will find what you seek."

YAMANTAKA : Osoto, HOW? WHERE? WHO? Could you indicate some names, please?

To Lewis : Start your own group of non-competitive judo practice and begin research on classical judo. Someone should start something like that.
Good luck
Yamantaka

Joseph Svinth
24th August 2000, 23:43
Ubaldo --

Try writing some of the Kano Society organizers such as Syd Hoare or Richard Bowen -- I think you'd like them.

My personal suspicion is that the future of judo is going to be a further split between Olympic and "classical." The result will be something similar to what is seen in TKD and koryu/gendai. Accurate research would be nice, however, as sometimes what we believe to be traditional only dates to the 1930s. Meanwhile traditions and activities that we are convinced represent modern mass nationalism and commercialism at their worst are actually hundreds of years old.

Lewis Christopher
25th August 2000, 01:57
Thank you to everyone. You're response all show caring for not only my dilemna, but Judo as an art. I have been studying Martial Arts in one form or another since I was a child and I have decided to just take a break completely between now and December. In December my son will be 5 and I want to expose him to Judo and I will hopefully be ready to start again myself. I will have a long talk with my friend and teacher before we start and hopefully come to an understanding. In answer to one question, I tried to discuss my feeling with him, but it never seemed to get through. The thing came to a head when he asked me several times to go to a particular tournament. I kept saying no so he had the head instructor from our dojo call and ask me personally. I felt I couldn't say no, but I also felt backed into a corner. Along with the tournaments, the other problem was that no matter how often I was at the dojo I was told I needed to be there more. Our dojo has class 5 times a week. If I was single with no kids, I would be there for every class, but that is not the case and I will not set aside the rest of my life for Judo. He also began telling me that I HAD TO lift weights (he loves to lift) if I wanted to progress. Now, I run 3 miles 3 times a week and can do push ups, pull ups and sit ups until the cows come home, but I hate lifting weights. it was just one more thing I felt forced to do. The bad part is that I truly love this man, he is like a second father to me, but unfortunately he acted a little too much like a father instead of a friend.

MarkF
25th August 2000, 06:33
Before J. Kano died, he lamented the fact that brute strength and learing two or three waza was what some thought judo was. Most who compete and live to compete, do just that. In the long run, this will not hold up. When you stop or get weaker as you age, this style of judo will fail you. Kano also spoke of being the "soft" judoka, and only in very short bursts, coming from the center (hips and shoulders), is this necessary. Up to that point and immediately following, you must stay loose and relaxed. This is Kodokan style randori of which he spoke (I think he may touch on this in Kodokan judo, as well. He also spoke of a general lack of good teachers, and that an immediate return to Kdokan randori must happen immediately. He saw this coming a long time ago, and he probably would approve of Olympic judo, but only if his methods were followed. Otherwise, he would be very disappointed. While he favored commpetition for building character, and being far more improtant than war and politics, he never wanted judo to be a game, and never pushed, I don't believe, for judo to be included in the Olympics. He pushed for the inclusion of sport in Japan, and was making plans for the 1940 Olympic Games in Japan. He died without seeing his work come to this fruition.

I don't blame you in the least for taking a vacation.

As always, please stop by with questions or topic posts, and to answer other questions here. "Rank is nothing. Waza is everything." A quote by a jujutsuka back in the early 1960s. In other words, you are welcome as you have a good and practical "center" about you.

Sincerely,
Mark

Try this site also. http://www.concentric.net/~budokai . It is an organizaton fro anyone who does budo, and anyone can join, but is not necessary. I think you will like it.~M~