View Full Version : Wolves in the dojo

20th November 2002, 15:12
I know on this forum they are called trolls. But in the dojo I call them wolves. Of course I get that from the "wolf in sheeps clothing" comment. These are peolple that come in, maybe on a regular basis to train, and try to take what they have learned back to another school and teach it, or try and teach it at a school that they have been sent by. I know it looks as if I am allowing my mind to run with ideas of treachery, but unfortunately I have encountered 3 or 4 of these type people.

This gripes my hind end for the main reason that they have "learned" the technique, maybe, but have not learned the true essence of the technique. In essence learning the ura and not the omote and vice versa.

As much as these people annoy me, I will not treat them differently in the dojo out of respect for my instructors decision to allow them to train with us. However I have no contact with them outside the dojo. Upon discussing this very topic with my instructor, he enlightened me to the thought that we can learn from this type of person, use them for a good round of butsukuri, and feed them with the type of techniques, they in their mind percieve, they expect to learn from a traditional style.

I sincerely apologize for what seems to several threads with negative connotations. I don't mean them to come across in this fashion, however these are topics on which I spend some time thinking about and am curious as to the opinions and experiences of the folks on this forum that I feel truly have an opinion or experience worth valuing.


J. A. Crippen
20th November 2002, 19:57
I think you should ask yourself a question: Why do you let them annoy you?

If they follow the rules of the dojo, don't cause any disturbances, and are respectful of the sensei and students, then any bad feelings you have towards them would seem to me to be entirely personal. (Note that I'm ignoring personality conflicts here.)

So what if they take the techniques they learn elsewhere? Who cares? They're probably learning them wrong, but hey, it doesn't do anything to you. Or to the ryu.

Now, if they go around frauding people and claiming knowledge or rank or responsibility that they do not have, then perhaps that's an issue the ryu should care about. But really, if they're harmless then they can just easily be ignored.

If someone they teach really believes that they have been taught the genuine technique then it's that someone's fault for not verifying the legitimacy of their teacher. This is true in every martial art, not just in koryu bujutsu.

21st November 2002, 15:28
James: I rei to you. You are exactally right. These people are easily ignored. However with the present wolf we have now, he is biding his time for a high rank so there may be some type of lineage for him. His old instructor has no real lineage, just that typical American style of -insert art here-.

There are no personality conflicts per se. But, it bothers me for the mere fact that he can't be honest about what he is doing. Just say "hey I want to learn from you but I'm going to teach it to others." Maybe I expect too much from someone that already has his own school and is attending our dojo and another school. I guess I can take comfort in the fact that he may overload himself and burn out.

You are very correct though James. When I wrote this thread yesterday I felt as though I had more of this mess than I needed for the month. After training last night I had the oppurtunity to clear my head a little, and today I have a different perspective.

:beer: Here's to the continual evolution of the individual man.

Jack B
21st November 2002, 15:46
Is the person a good student? Is he worth your time? If not, either run him off, or let him stick around and ignore him unless he/she interferes with your real students.

If he is dishonest/conflicted about his motives, use the same standards, but check again periodically to see if he "buys into" your system. People change, and no one starts a martial art really knowing what he is getting into. Seeing a person's true intentions and future ("the long body") is part of budo.

21st November 2002, 16:43
This student is continually attempting to dictate the curriculum to what he wishes to study or work on the night. Myself and a couple of other instructors have mentioned something to our instructor, but it has been to no avail. I suppose I'm making a mountain out of a molehill. The more I think about it the more I really discover that by putting forth too much thought on this matter, the more mental space is wasted that could be put to better use. I'm trying to let it slide, for I am not the one that will have to look at myself in the mirror when he makes a fool of himself. Not so much from a stand point of his ego, but more so of his being exposed for claiming to be a part of something he is not.

I thank you guys for posting your opinion and views. It has helped me to look at the way I have approached this situation. Sometimes we need to look at the situation as a whole and not just on a selfish basis. Though I strive hard to not be selfish or have any ego, I sometimes slip up and don't even see it. Thanks guys.:D

22nd November 2002, 18:54
Is there a japanese saying for that situation? I am referring to the true nature of a man revealing itself in time.

Erin O'Neill