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View Full Version : Brachial Stun and last nights UFC



Kevin73
23rd November 2002, 19:23
I thought I would start a new thread because I remembered seeing someone asking about this technique and thought I would give a real life example of it working (even by accident)

In last nights UFC Robbie Lawler vs. Tiki: Lawler throws a swinging type punch (kind of a wild haymaker) but missed Tiki's head. Instead he hits Tiki on the side of the neck (brachial plexus origin)with his forearm and instantly KO'd Tiki. Tiki falls to the ground and Lawler gave him a huge bomb with his right hand that bounced Tiki's head off the mat and split his eyebrow wide open.

I know from my PPCT class alot of people have said to the instructor that it would only work if the guy was standing there and not punching and moving around. Thought I would share this to give people that example in such a high profile fight

matt little
26th November 2002, 05:03
I know I have used this on the street against a combative subject, and it worked just fine-kind of like a puppet with the strings suddenly cut. Not a true KO, but more like disorientation and momentary loss of motor function. Lasted just long enough to jump on him and effect a pin in order to cuff.

tmanifold
26th November 2002, 22:24
I think using the term Stun is better than KO. Any body who saw Maurice Smith "KO" Conan Silveria, saw that Conan was really KO like You see From a huge Overhand right in boxing. He was definatly out of it, however. For those that did not see it, Smith landed a roundhouse on the side of Conan's neck. It was the first indication that a striker that knew enough grappling not to be overwhelmed has can beat a skilled grappler.

On a side note I just posted an article entitled Why Grapplers Succeed: And what strikers can do about it (http://www.members.shaw.ca/tmanifold/grapplers.htm) on My website.

Back to the Stun. It might be easier for people to understand the concpet behind Nervous System shutdowns if the term KO wasn't used. Take Dillman's Stuff (PLEASE :)ok bad joke). They are not KO's They are Nervous System Shutdowns(NSS). Whether the techniques are practical or not, hitting where they do produces a Nevous System Shutdown (It is probably closer to a reboot but Shutdown sounds better). There are various targets that are practical to attack and produce the same results. Boxing KO's come from two main sources The brain rattling of a really hard punch and the NSS from a punch allon the nerve line of the Jaw. The side of the Neck area , specifically the pneumogastric nerve sheath and the Vagus nerve inside it. These two are probably the most common.

Ok starting to ramble. I'll post more when my brain is working better.

INFINOO
27th November 2002, 02:52
Tony: What you forgot to mention about that incident is that the ref "stood them up" several times, when they where "dead locked" on the ground.
It can takes a can take huges amounts of energy and fresh legs to take a striker down the caliber of Mr Smith. And ,Once on the ground the striker can stall and get stood up and get another chance to strike when there back on there feet. Another example of this in UFC was Gracie and Shamrock. Royce got tagged in the eye in "over time" after both fighter where "stood up" from a heap the ground in regulation time.
I liked(and watched) the UFC when there where less rules, no weight division and unlimited time.
When all the rules and standing the fighters up business started, I lost interest.

I learned and experinced the brachial stun first hand from someone who went throught the PPCT course. Good stuff.Not a knock out just a loss of senses for a few moments:cool:. IMO an excellent tool for self defence as a non leathal first response. Or in knife or gun combatives the brachial stun is effetive in conjuntion with a block/stike as a means to get some time/room to draw a knife/gun. If your hitting from the front face to face with bad guy, the outside of the arm(fleshy part) on the side of neck work the best for me.

Regards

Gregory Rogalsky
Rogalsky Combatives International
Calgary Alberta Canada

Benjamin Peters
27th November 2002, 03:14
http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=15028

This is the original thread I posted a while back now in reference to the Brachial Plexus. One issue which was raised was the fact that BBC documentary contained a scene within the Shorinji Kempo presentation, which showed people being effected by the brachial stun.

The first demo showed a open hand chop to the side of the neck. the guy stumbles down to the ground and is very much disoriented.

With more power, the second demo shows a right fist to the area just forward (toward the throat) of the side of the neck. The guy gets knocked out. The instructor shows it clearly as to how and where he punches.

I wonder, I find this area of the neck more sensitive (but harder to get) - is it still the same "brachial plexus".

second question: how do you guys apply it in LE? back-handed-forearm strike to the area?

FM-21-150 mentions something about not retracting your strike to soon, to enable all the energy to part and thump the opponent - do you subscribe to this theory?

INFINOO
27th November 2002, 08:32
I think the term is hydro_____ shock? Anyway, I call it the Shock Wave Concept. For the ASP swing heavy , drop your weight and keep the baton from bouncing off the the target after contact. "Hit and stick for a second or two" This way, all the kinetic energy "is dumped" into the target. The non leathal striking targets for the baton with this meathod are the large muscle masses on the thighs, fleshy part of the arms and calfs and back :eek:. Lots of soft tissue trama but no broken bones.

It makes sense to anyone who is a drummer :D
Its like the differnce between letting the stick bounce off the head of the drum skin and letting it bounce back up again, and doing "a rim shot" which is when the drum stick hits the metal band(rim) and the skin at the same time which vibrates the whole drum, which cause hardly any bounce. Using the same force a rim shot is way loader.

If you want to learn to dance
first you must learn to stick fight
if you want to stick fight
first you must learn to drum.


Regards

Gregory Rogalsky
Rogalsky Combatives International
Calgary Alberta Canada