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Bradenn
25th November 2002, 11:46
Just read an "interesting" article here:

http://www.kiyojuteryu.org/soke/articles/ninjutsu.shtml

Among other strange stuff, it claims that James Mitose (Kempo teacher) was actually the first person to teach Ninjutsu in America! Move aside Steve Hayes!

Also claims that Seiko Fujita was "the headmaster of Koga Ha Sato Ryu. He was as such an accomplished master of Ninjutsu".

Interesting.

Baio
25th November 2002, 14:55
Sounds like an anime movie with these kinds of things going on.

"Ninia brought with them whatever religion they might have, but it did not guarantee loyalty, for the Ninja were always at the service to the highest bidder. It is important to realize that Ninja were mercenaries who would do any job for pay. They were terrorist and assassins for hire, with no loyalty, other than money. They would change sides in a moment if the money was right."

and

"Probably the most famous Ninjutsu practitioner of Yagyu Ryu is Jubei Yagyu"

no mention of Hattori Hanzo, I always thought he was the most famous ninja. Not to mention Soke Hatsumi isn't mentioned once in there.

Sean T. Fourkiller
25th November 2002, 19:10
This page is a textbook example of the Juko-Kai in operation. :rolleyes:

BC
25th November 2002, 20:11
William Durbin "Soke" has been discussed here many times... :rolleyes:

Okami
25th November 2002, 21:41
Originally posted by Baio
Not to mention Soke Hatsumi isn't mentioned once in there.


It is interesting to note at this point that Toshitsugu Takamatsu, the man who instructed Masaaki Hatsumi who gave Mikkyo based Ninjutsu to the world, had stated in an interview before he died that he learned Ninjutsu from his uncle Shinryuken Masamitsu Toda, whose family descended from the Samurai class in Iga province. This solidly establishes the Samurai basis of modern Ninjutsu over the Ninja concept.


:)

BTW, the other posters are correct, this has been discussed before. IIRC, M.C. Busman has wrote some good thoughts on this. Not to mention the Nimr "I'll change my name so no one will ask about my past" Hassan thing...

Sorry, only found this... http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2831

Maybe the rest got pruned or my memory is bad.

Cheers,

Mijo.

monkeyboy_ssj
26th November 2002, 10:19
Originally posted by Baio
Sounds like an anime movie with these kinds of things going on.

"Probably the most famous Ninjutsu practitioner of Yagyu Ryu is Jubei Yagyu".

At least there wer no people with rock skin or bee hives on their backs _

Matt Boxall

Bradenn
26th November 2002, 14:15
While on this topic, is Ron van Clief (The Black Dragon) a fraud? He is in fantastic physical shape for someone pushing 60, but in some of his books he claims to teach Ninjutsu. One of his Chinese Goju kata has the name Ninja in it. Also, he claims to have learned from Ronald Duncan. Why is everyone so keen to be Koga Ryu masters?

Tamdhu
26th November 2002, 16:57
Why is everyone so keen to be Koga Ryu masters?

Because then they get to be the super-secret outlaw masters that they've always dreamed of being. Any koga-bashing or reality-checks are simply absorbed to lend them 'outsider' and 'outlaw' status that makes them even more attractive to the ashida-kids and koga-teens.

So long as there is some open-ended information floating around about this mystical ryu or that one, there will be petty vultures to try to claim these bits as their own, sitting comfortably with the thought that there is no existing lineage to deny their claims.

Some people find satisfaction in being King of their very own Kiddie Pool rather than taking the time and suffering the humility required to learn to swim in a river, lake, sea or ocean that has existed before them.

This will never change.

Everyone gets what their looking for...