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Bradenn
26th November 2002, 17:13
Hi

I gather that most of us in Bujinkan have not been taught Gyokushin, Gikan or Kumogakure Ryu although these are among the schools that Hatsumi-sensei heads.

Does anyone know the reasons? I have heard that Gyokushin and Kumogakure Ryu are more conceptual as opposed to comprising actual fighting techniques? Is that true? Even if it is true, there must be something that can be taught. Otherwise what would there be for Hatsumi-sensei to inherit from Takamatsu?

As far as Gikan Ryu goes, is it similar to Koto Ryu - another school of Koppo? Anyone know why this is not widely taught? Is it a case of the techniques being secret or too dangerous to teach? I understand that not even Manaka-sensei was taught this school.

I seem to remember you could buy a video showing Kihon Happo done in a Gikan Ryu version. Anyone seen this?

Before anyone says it, YES I know that there is more than enough in the other 6 schools. Hell, there is a lifetime of understanding in Kihon Happo alone. Still, I am curious.

Thanks

BigJon
26th November 2002, 18:09
The video you are talking about(I think) is Gyokko ryu koshijutsu, Quest title form Soke. HE performs the kihon happo from a Gikan ryu point of view.(Lifting the arms up to attack the ribs...) If I have ever seen or performed any kata from these schools, I didn't know it that is for sure. I have heard that most of the leaping techniques Bujinkan students practice, comes form the Kumagakure school. ALso some specialized spear techniques as well. I know there are people out there who have learned these schools, it's just a matter of when your Shihan/Shidoshi was in Japan to learn.(or how long they have been going) Shoto Tanemura learned Gikan ryu from other teachers, besides Hatsumi Soke...Hope I helped out at all.


Jon Gillespie

mmeskheniten
26th November 2002, 18:30
From what I have seen and read, with the exception of Gikan Ryu, things seem rather hush hush regarding these schools.

I have often wondered if these schools not for Gaijin?

Muai-Aakhu

BigJon
26th November 2002, 18:38
Of course this is still Hearsay,(HERESY?, LOL) But I was told once that The Kumagakure school was developed by Togakure leaders as a "School of thought". Strategy, etc. But a complete system in it's own right. I think Gyokushin ryu is related to Gyokko ryu in a similiar fashion.



Jon Gillespie

bencole
26th November 2002, 20:49
Originally posted by mmeskheniten
I have often wondered if these schools not for Gaijin?

I've learned some from all three schools, and I'm a gaijin, so I guess that answers your concerns.

And the idea that the techniques in these schools are any more "dangerous" than any of the other six ryuha made me chuckle. I guess snapping necks and disemboweling people does not fit Bradenn's definition of "dangerous."

-ben

mmeskheniten
27th November 2002, 06:34
I gather that MOST of us in Bujinkan have not been taught Gyokushin, Gikan or Kumogakure Ryu although these are among the schools that Hatsumi-sensei heads.

I still think that the gent's question still stands. Would anyone know why these schools are not WIDELY taught?

Don Roley
27th November 2002, 07:37
Like Ben, I have seen selected techniques from all three schools. IMO, there is just not enough reason to teach these arts while people are still screwing up the basics like the kihon happo. If you pratice Takagi Yohshin ryu, you get an area that is worth exploring. If you study the Gyokko ryu, you get another part of the puzzle that differs from the Takagi. But I do not see enough unique stuff in any of what I have been shown from the three schools to justify more than a foot note in my training journal as I concentrate on the basics of the Koto, Gyokko, etc.

I really, really doubt Hatsum is holding this stuff back because it is too dangerous. More likely, we just have not reached a level of skill he is satisfied with before he starts adding more trivia to our plate.

mmeskheniten
27th November 2002, 07:45
Like Ben, I have seen selected techniques from all three schools. IMO, there is just not enough reason to teach these arts while people are still screwing up the basics like the kihon happo.

So are these schools more advanced in some important respect?

Muai-Aakhu

Don Roley
27th November 2002, 07:56
Originally posted by mmeskheniten


So are these schools more advanced in some important respect?



Not in my opinion based on what I have seen. It is just that the basics they are built on are very similar to other arts, arts we have yet to master. And the techniques themselves are more like variations of existing techniques than anything I would call "advanced."

In fact, a lot of the stuff I have seen from the three schools I have seen done before they were identified to me. Before that, I had just thought them as either variations of some other school like the Koto, or one of the techniques Hatsumi comes up with for a certain situation. You all may be studying more schools than you think.

Bradenn
27th November 2002, 11:18
Originally posted by bencole


I guess snapping necks and disemboweling people does not fit Bradenn's definition of "dangerous."

-ben

Snapping necks and disemboweling dangerous???
Nah! I do that regularly in my training.
Does your training include totally flipping out, chopping off heads, flying and stabbing? Not to mention homemade bombs? Now that's really dangerous and by dangerous I mean totally cool.
I'm have heard that those are among the secrets in the other 3 schools.

BigJon
27th November 2002, 11:28
Bradenn, you must be the dropped the fork in the diner guy. LOL!



Jon Gillespie

Bradenn
27th November 2002, 11:31
It was a spoon, not a fork.

Would you confuse a shuriken with a katana?

No?

So then have some more respect for real ninja tools.