Suggestions on inexpensive yet usable Katana

[cc_ninja]

I am looking for an inexpensive yet usable Katana for live cutting. Can anyone make a suggestion. My wife has already claimed divorce if I spend over $600 (puts me in a real bind), & I kinda want to keep her around. Anything used or in imperfect condition anyone could suggest. I am currently studying Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu & this sword will be abused. I do not want any 440 Stainless crap as I have seen a stainless sword break & go through another students leg.

Thanks for the info,
Richard Elizondo

[Bruce Mitchell]

Hello,
I would recommend that you do some reading on swordforum.com In their magazine archives they have reviews of inexpensive blades (under $300.00). I believe that they gave a thumbs up to the Kris Cutlery katana as a decent quality low end sword. There are real dangers to misusing any weapon (moderator Nathan Scott has a great collection of sword horror stories), no matter what quality it is (especially if you plan on abusing it). Best of luck.

[Carlos Estrella]

I've used a Shinto Katana for two years now and have cut mats from Mugen Dachi pretty much all of that time with no ill effects on the blade. It wasn't expensive (http://www.ecmas.com - my blade costs $499.95 plus shipping from Bob Elder's shop), and a rather prominent instructor whom I've trained with was not against my using it, since I was mindful of its limitations (not for very heaving cutting, and a little too easy to bend slightly when performing any serious torquing of the blade in techniques).

I wish you luck in your sword search, as well as your "personal battles."

[Chidokan]

Tell her its the only Xmas present you want and you wont need another ever, honest.. works every time:D Otherwise you might be able to pick up a shingunto for about that price. Change the tsuka (sometimes they are a bit rotten) and they are o.k. to use.

Tim Hamilton

[David T Anderson]

The Hanwei Practical Katana and Practical Plus Katana are both very good swords, and well within your budget... Good luck!

[Bruce Mitchell]

While the practical katana falls within his price range, there are signifigant safety concerns with the performance of this blade. I would again point you to sword forum, where this blade was extensively tested both in actual use, and through scientific examination.

It appears that Hanwei has made improvements to these blades, but the kris cutlery blade is physically superior, although the mountings are a vit cruder. Since Mr. Elizondo stated that this blade "will be abused", I would say that it is best to make sure as many of his pennies go into the making of the blade, and forget about the appearance of the fittings. Just my two cents.

THe Hanwei blades seem to be best suited for solo practice, and would probably be better choice than most low grade iaito out there. However test cutting has become the latest fad out there, like when many schools started adding ground fighting after the UFC. Test cutting is a valid form of study, but in many arts is not attempted until a basic rank is achieved (I know some Iaido schools use sandan as a basic level).Other schools introduce it earlier under the qualified eye of a skilled instructer, who should be guiding the student in their choice of a sword.

I do not mean to imply that all martial arts teachers are qualified to judge what makes a good sword (most, even Iaido, and kenjutsu teachers have little knowledge of sword appraisel). Do your homework, be overcautious, and best of luck to you.

[Carlos Estrella]

"not for very heaving cutting..."

I meant HEAVY - sorry.

[cc_ninja]

Thanks again everyone.
Seems like I will be calling Kris Cutlery in a few days.
Does anyone have any input on thier Naginata 2 & 3 blades ?
They look mighty nice !!

I was thinking about mounting the Naginata 3 blade as a No-Datchi, any thoughts. I am 6'tall and the suburito ( Large Boken ) feels realy good.

Richard Elizondo

[Jody Holeton]

Dear Ninja,

Got a grinder?
Got a whetstone?
Got a junk yard nearby?

My granddaddy used to get some spring steel from work (at an old Ford factory), and made some BIG Bowie knives.

You probaly get an iaito that you like, use it like a template on some spring steel (rods, sheet, etc) and make your own.

Get a metallurgy book from the library, find a machine shop (or improvise like I always do) and make your own.

I used to make knives and shuriken at my old work place from old files (old high carbon ones).

Its FUN and INEXPENSIVE and you don't mind banging it up (which you will with tameshigiri).

Have fun!

[Michael Price]

The cheaper swords sold in martial arts suppliers are usually meant for show only, however the blade of these swords is often quite adequate for what you're looking for. The problem with them is often in the handle, if you buy one of these and take it to a swordsmith in your area then they should be able to fix it right up for a fraction of the price you'd pay for a sword that won't fall apart. Just make sure that if you do this then get it fixed up BEFORE you use it, otherwise you run the risk of the mountings in the handle breaking and the blade coming loose and cutting someone.

Cheers
-Michael Price

[stevemcgee99]

I guess I'm suprised to be the first to ask about this. You (Elizando) mentioned a student being stuck in the leg by a broken stainless blade. Was this during class?
A sharp blade can cut off your fingers, or worse. Do you ever touch the ha of your bokken?
Do you understand how permanent an injury like amputation is?
I spent some time toning down the judgmental air of this reply. I think then I need to ask, what are your classes like?
If I am wrong in interpreting that when you said student, meaning someone being taught, the injury was during a class, then I'm curious who this person was. Do you "practice" with him or her?

[cc_ninja]

The first time I saw a stainless sword break was in 1998 at an RBWI Seminar outside of Dallas. We were working on Cutting from Daijodan no kamae at a slight angle through some pretty tough Bamboo. As a friend of mine, Jason Garcia, attempted his cut with his new 440 stainless blade, we heard the steel sing & then him. The last 8-10" of the blade broke off & spun into his leading leg. (Nasty Looking) He truned out OK but did give up on his MA training 6 months later.

Now about 7 months ago I was doing some training here in South Texas with a few guys. This time the sword was one of these full Tang Samurai Swords found at :
http://www.budkww.com/partsview.asp?action=lookup&partno=BK277&subject=U3&catpos=1

Now this time we were working on different cuts from a draw through some medium thickness bamboo. Luckily this time the blade broke without injury & got hung on the Bamboo. However the sword did break right above the Tsuba, which was very scary !

Now I don't know if anyone else has had any scare stories about 440 stainless but I just refuse to cut with it any more.

Thanks again for all the info guys,
does anyone have any info on Paul Chens Musashi Sword ?
I found one on Ebay pretty cheap but don't know much about it.

Thanks,

Richard Elizondo

[stevemcgee99]

...

[Chidokan]

Its OBVIOUSLY designed to do that as its a 'deadly ninja concealed blade' design... you leave part of the blade in the victim:D

Tim Hamilton

[pete lohstroh]

Classic!

A guy with a "ninja" e-budo "handle" posts a question about a good sword for cutting. Within the post, he casually mentions a negligent wounding with, what turns out to be, a cheap and dangerous mail-order ninja sword.

Fantastic!

Where, might I ask, was the competent instructor? If the answer is, "huh?", I suggest working with something less dangerous. A wire whisk, maybe?

[cc_ninja]

I will ask that you please not belittle the situation, as I am being completely serious about this post. Yes the quality of these swords are questionable, but in both cases a qualified & certified (under the Bujinkan) instructor was less than 20ft away & proper technique was being used. The issue here is the quality of the sword, not your ego problem, or the need to belittle the situation for your own personal needs (Since you didn't add anything helpful in your post, I can only assume this). Someone was hurt, a lesson was learned; let's leave it at that.

As for everyone else, thank you all so much for the info.

Richard Elizondo
admin@lightningconnect.net

[pete lohstroh]

Mr. Elizondo,
I apologize for the sarcastic tone of my last post. I appreciate your sincerity and do realize that you are looking for a safe cutting tool. There are "kids" who read these posts who need to have the seriousness of sword injury impressed upon them. Also, as a member of the Bujinkan, I am touchy about guilt by association when there are ninja related shenanigans.

[pgsmith]

Phil said ...
the fact that even members of the martial arts community don't realize that the most common 440A stainless samurai and ninja swords on the market simply aren't safe for use as swords. That is a very true statement as most in the MA community are not familiar with and don't work with swords. The thing that concerns me is the fact that the instructor here was a quote "qualified & certified (under the Bujinkan) instructor" that "was less than 20ft away & proper technique was being used". If this instructor was qualified to teach JSA, he should have already been taught about what constitutes a quality sword. That training is very much a part of all the sword arts, and I am very concerned that a qualified instructor would allow his students to cut bamboo with a stainless steel sword.
Please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to bash anyone, I am just concerned. Preventable injuries that occur to people that are trying to teach themselves is bad enough, but preventable injuries that occur with 'qualified instruction' alarm me a great deal as they reflect on the entire Japanese Sword Art community.
A question for any other high level Bujinkan practitioners that may be out there ... Is this a common scenario, students practicing with stainless steel swords? How much were you taught about what to look for in a quality sword, as opposed to learning on your own.
How about those of you in other JSA. Were you taught what to look for, or did you learn on your own? Did your instructor tell you what to buy for your first sharp sword, or did you make the decision yourself?
Just curious thanks.

(editted cause I can't spell!)

[pete lohstroh]

Mr. Smith,
excellent points and no one was harmed while you made them! This accident does not reflect sword training at any of the dojos and training groups I have had contact with. There are people in our dojos who have a lot of experience with sharp weapons, (Dale Seago at Sword Forum being a good example) and there are people who have none.

In any case, I don't know any Bujinkan teachers who would allow training with an unsafe weapon to proceed.

[stevemcgee99]

I am taught not to cut things. I AM being taught various nuki, several cuts, chiburi, and noto. Also, reigi, tsuka maintenece, how to use my hips, asking permission to hold another's weapon, accepting one, hoe to carry a weapon to and from my car, I was told about and encouraged to attend token kai, given a novel to read involving forging a katana, have been given a reading list of several books to read (only Craig's- off the list, now- and Draeger's had technique descriptions in them). I have participated in cutting during class two times.
I WILL be cutting in the future. There is no point now when my technical problems are evident without it. Even if I could force my way through something (read the thread about tameshigiri "records"?)I might not be able to deflect what's next, or cut again quickly enough. I guess in order to cut an endless amount of times with no stopping and starting, I have a lot more to practice besides cutting bamboo with stainless/plastic swords- even if it IS pretty cool.
I'm glad that, although I have been arrogant enough at times to think I know "more" than my sensei, I have never been afraid of his judgement. And I'm glad my relapses of adolescent thinking haven't deluded me enough to look down on picking up a bokken.