Ninjutsu connection

[Bradenn]

Hi
I'm a (Bujinkan) Taijutsu practitioner and recently heard a rumor that Ueshiba-sensei learned some Ninjutsu and/or Kukishinden ryu techniques. Is there any truth to that? Kukishinden ryu is one of the schools taught by Hatsumi-sensei of the Bujinkan. Apparently Ueshiba-sensei was be able to disappear and reappear somewhere else but said that it took years off his life. Interesting if it is true.

[Peter H.]

Not anywhere I've read of O-Sensei is it mentioned that he practiced Ninjitsu or Ninpo or any of the other names I've seen the ninja arts refered to.
There are conflicting reports about what he learned and from where, Aikidofaq.com is a good source as are many of his biographies, but it basically comes down to studying Aikijujitsu, Kenjutsu, Kyojutsu, Jojutsu, and Yarijutsu, at least those are the ones that every account I've read agrees on.As for what Hatsumi Sensei teaches, there are plenty of his students lurking in E-Budo, last I saw there was a fairly heated debate in Baffling Budo involving them and Jim McCoy, ask one of them what he studied.
O-Sensei was credited with many mystical abilities that are probably attributably to highly tuned senses and familiarity with all his students, like the ability to sense suprise attacks and tell who approached him by the way they walk. But dissappearing is somehting new to me.

[BigJon]

I read that same story in an aikido book by John Stevens...the disappearing one that is.

Jon Gillespie

[Dom C]

Originally posted by Bradenn
Apparently Ueshiba-sensei was be able to disappear and reappear somewhere else but said that it took years off his life. Interesting if it is true.

I read this somewhere, and if i remember correctly it(the disappearing) was a sort of muto dori vs multiple swordsmen. He was able to slip away from them using aiki principals and great taijutsu.

It took years off his life in the sense that it takes years of training to gain that sort of mastery.

I'm not an authority on the subject,just my 2 cents.Please correct me if i'm wrong.

thanks!

[Bradenn]

When I said it took years off his life, I meant that Ueshiba-sensei was supposed to have said that each time he disappeared it reduced his life expectancy.

Maybe it's just an urban legend. There is another story about Ueshiba-sensei saying that Jesus performed Aikido!

[BC]

Originally posted by Bradenn
There is another story about Ueshiba-sensei saying that Jesus performed Aikido!

That must be the root of the "hand-to-the-face-plant" iriminage we do. Can you say "EVIL KI COME OUT! ? :rolleyes:

All this secret aikido technique practice must be taking years off my life too, because when I started I was lighter and had a full head of dark brown hair. Now I'm heavier, slower, and bald. Oh wait, I got married around the same time period...

[ChrisHein]

I'm going to make a painting of Jesus throughting the devil in a kokyunage, that'll be a site!

[Peter H.]

The Jesus=Aikido thing I believe is taken out of context. If you look at pictures of O-Sensei performing Kokyu-nage and Irimi-nage, it was noted how his ending hand positions were similiar to those on the "abhaya-mudra", the fear not gesture of Buddha. This gesture is similar to ones used by Jesus in classical renessance paintings of him.

The position is right hand held high, fingers up, palm out. The left hand is held low, fingers down, palm out.

[poryu]

HI all

the art Ueshiba studied was not Kukishinden or pure Ninjutsu/Ninpo bu tsome branch of Kukshin Ryu.

Ueshiba is I think suposed to have commented that he studied some Kukishin ryu sword which branch style I havent a clue.

For a short time it is recorded that he was visitng the home of Kuki Takaharu the soke of the Kukishin Ryu during Ueshiba's life time.

As Kuki was not a martial artist but more of a religious person (The Kuki soke is also the head of the Kuki families religious sections called Kuki shinto or something like that), we can assume that Ueshiba was doing some religious tudy with Kuki and not martial arts

There is a picture which shows Ueshiba and Kuki together near Kuki's home.

[Bradenn]

Did a websearch on google for "Ueshiba and Kuki" and look what I found:

http://www.daytonquest.com/articles/aikidoninja.asp

[BigJon]

Ninjutsu is the antithesis of Aikido. It is an art based on stealth, deception, and dirty tricks; yet even with their reliance on the vaunted "techniques of invisibility" and an arsenal of exotic weapons, none of the famous ninja of the past could have stood a chance against the divine techniques of Morihei, formulated in accordance with the principles of love and harmony.

Man do I suck, boy am I low for learning the antithesis of aikido, they are divine by the way...maybe this ties in with the martial arts and satanism thread...I bet John Stevens hates me, Uggh I'm practicing evil and didn't know it!!!:D :D


Jon Gillespie

[Peter H.]

Learn something new everyday.

[Bradenn]

Originally posted by Jon G.


Man do I suck, boy am I low for learning the antithesis of aikido, they are divine by the way...maybe this ties in with the martial arts and satanism thread...I bet John Stevens hates me, Uggh I'm practicing evil and didn't know it!!!:D :D


Jon Gillespie


Yes, you Ninjutsu people are scum.
You are evil monsters.
You are low down murderers.
You have no honour.
You are the devil incarnate
You are ....

Wait ... I do Ninjutsu too! Uh oh.

[BigJon]

Just a little clarification...I think very highly of Aiki arts. It's just that Bushwood(Caddyshack) attitude being displayed by some artists that gets me!

Jon Gillespie

[BC]

Oh yeah!?

Phhhht!

To quote from a James Caan movie: "you're nothin' but a dirty bird!"
;)

Besides, didn't Bill Murray play a ninja in Caddyshack?

[INFINOO]

I have several of Mr Stevens books but I for one dont buy the "Aiki is good Ninjutsu is the Devil" B.S.
Either did my teacher in aiki who happends to be a priest.
Have some experience with both(more aiki than ninjutsu 51/49) , I wouldnt be surprised if they are connnected. For instance , both arts stress entering to the rear). Tai-jutsu wise IMO Ninjutsu taijutsu gets much lower than aiki-taijutsu.
The best way to find out is to "test the waters" for your self. Just for fun, tell the aiki guys your a beginner;) Now, go play.

Regards

Gregory Rogalsky
Rogalsky Combatives International
Calgary Alberta Canada

[BigJon]

BC- Bill Murray was on a secret mission to assassinate the gophers, whaddya mean he didn't play a ninja? You just didn't know it...I wasn't talking about Bill's character, I was talking about Ted Knight's(The Judge)...Snob.


Jon Gillespie

[BC]

Please re-read my post. I was inferring that Bill Murray DID play a ninja. And I was just trying to throw in a little humor, by the way.

[BigJon]

Damn that cold medicine...;)

Jon Gillespie

[Benjamin Peters]

ok, i wanted to refer back to Bradenn's original question. as a bujinkan ninpo practioner as well, i have heard this on several occasions. added to which, i have read from one source (maybe more, can't recall them all) about Ueshiba and certain techniques (ninjutsu). from the practice and demonstration of such techniques, i cannot say any more as there is no 'hard' evidence (only anecdotal) of such a connection. however, it has been sighted by some authorities that a connection exists with the current day practice of ninpo groupings, though one of the connected arts in the collective - kukishin(den)-ryu (although perhaps, specific lineage itself is another issue for discussion).

a matter of opinion? dunno
for those aiki non-believers, check out this link and photo with Ueshiba and one generation head of the Kuki family (yes, this is a reputable web-page)
"A photograph taken near the premises of the Kukis on November 23,1964. Takaharu Kuki(left) and Morihei Ueshiba." :
http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/hyoho/image/impact19.jpg

Extracted directly from the webpage:
http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/hyoho/impact3_e.htm



TAKEMUSU AIKIDO

"A Study of Kuki Archives" by the late Miura Ichiro published in 1941 includes sentenses titled "explanatory notes by the writer regarding Shinden-budo (martial arts with Shinto background) as follows: ?@

?@
Today, Uesiba Moritaka from Kisyu-Kumano is praised as an authority of Kosiki Zukuri. When I[Miura] and Sir. Kuki met him in Tokyo recently, Morihei said, "My budo(martial arts) is that of Kukishinden"; he went on to say that he had some scrolls of Kukishinden-Tenshinhyoho, and worshipped Ushitora-no-Kimonkonjin that had been diefied by the Kuki family. It is obvious that his earnest efforts have brought him to the glolious position today; however, we should not pass over the fact that his school of martial arts is based on the real tradition of Shinden-budo.


"Uesiba Moritaka,"that is to say, "Ueshiba Morihei" is the founder of Aikido. But not so many people know that he learned martial arts originated in the Kuki family. And few people know the fact that the prototype of Aikido is based on "teachings of Koshinto(ancient Shintoism)" in Kukishin Ryu and Kukishinden.

Morihei met with Kuki Takaharu for the first time at Omoto Dojo in Yotsuya, Araki Cho. It was the end of the Taisho or the beginning of Showa period, when there was still Kuki family's residence 1 at Aoyama in Tokyo.

In those days(1918), Morihei believed in Omoto-kyou religious sect 2 because he adored Deguchi Onizaburo. Onizaburo offered him to go to Ayabe and teach martial arts, where the headquarters of Omoto existed at that time. It is said that Morihei deplored there was no able martial arts teachers. When he went to Tokyo on some buisiness later on, he visited Senso-ji Temple in Asakusa-Kannon, where he happened to see a man who displayed swordplay against a young man with wonderful skills. Morihei was so surprised that he asked the man about it. He answered, "This is the martial arts of the Kuki family." Morihei was deeply impressed by the great fate that linked him with Omoto-Kyo in Ayabe and the miracurous secret art. So Morihei asked the person to allow himself to become his student right away. After which those three practiced in the corner of the temple for some period.

?@

The man was a Saito, and the young man was Siun Goto, who was a student of medical science; he was supposedly one of the Saito's disciples. It is said that Saito's martial arts 3 was all-round ones that centered on swordsmanship. There was one thing Morihei was especially interested in --- Reijutsu (Shintoistic spiritualism). Saito seems to have called this "Kuki Reijutsu"; we can see traces of "Shinto of the Kukis" and "spiritualism in Kurama" that is the source of the school.
After Morihei learned Kukishin Ryu and various Reijutsu from Saito, he began to research more based on the words of his teacher "martial arts of the Kuki family." At long last, he came to visit Sir.Takaharu who was the Soke of Kukishin Ryu.


A distant view of Mt.Honguyama in Ayabe
(taken near Wakamiya shrine) At their first meeting, Morihei and Sir.Takaharu became on friendly terms with each other. They established Takemusu Aikido, to be exact, Amenomurakumo Samuhara Aikido 4, which is the archetype of Aikido today.
The reason Morihei named his martial arts "Amenomurakumo Samuhara Aikido" is that revelation was revealed before him from "Amenomurakumo Samuhara Ryuo" while he was training and reached the state of unity with Deity on Mt. Hongu 5 in Ayabe. It is said that he was embraced by the golden light at the moment. In Senpo, this is the evidence that he completed "Daitan."The same phenomenon was expressed as "Shinku" in "Tenshin Hyoho." There is a detailed description in "Hyohomichishirube Shui" by Shirai Toru.

?@

In the middle of the World War‡U, when Morihei built "Aiki Shrine" at Iwama-cho in Ibaragi, he implored Sir. Takaharu to be the honorary chief priest. Sir. Takaharu agreed to it, and a ceremony was held in which Takaharu himself served as the master of ceremony and recited a Shinto prayer on the Hosyukusai. On this particular occasion, Sir. Takaharu permitted to share one of a pair of "sho," which was a sacred treasure of "Kukimitama Shrine," as "Wakemitama"(part of spiritual entity). Takaharu also presented "Kura,"or saddle, which was handed down in Kukimitama Shrine. We can see their intimate relation from this fact. After the War, Morihei often visitted Kuki's residense in Kobe. Also he taught students Takemusu Aikido at Bansyu-Takamikura Dojo 6. Their close friendship continued for a long time. It is disappointing that Takemusu Aikido and the Kuki family graually became estranged after Morihei's death.
The entry of Takamikura Dojo
(A writing by Seiseki Abe used to be put on the right side of the wall.)



?@
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Notice
1 Up to 1932-1933, it was in 2 Aoyamaminami-cho 1 chome Akasaka-ku, Tokyo City. At that time, there was "Tokyo City."
2 Now this is the religious corporation "Omoto."
3 Saito's system of master is uncertain. Taking into consideration of his background, it would be the system of Edo. And it is said that Saito himself first began to practiced Takeuchi-Ryu Jyujyutu.
4 "Samuhara" was used for a charm from ancient times. The descriptions of this word often come out in Literatures of the Edo era, but almost all of them are uncertain. One opinion suggested that the origin of Samuhara is from Sanpara in Sanskrit. What do you think about it?
5 Another name is Mt.Turu or Mt. Okehuse which is located on the east of Old Ayabe Castle. It looks like a hill. On the top, there was a Shousi of Kumano Shrine, called Motokumano, built by Taira no Shigemori long time ago. Later, it was broken when this mountain became a site of the headquarters of Omotokyou called Baisyouen today.
6 In fact, a signboard reading " Amenotakemusu Aikijyuku Takamikura Dojo" once was on the wall of the entarance of Takamikura Dojo. The signboard was written by Seiseki Abe who was the latest disciple of Morihei. :o