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Chad Bruttomesso
26th August 2000, 21:33
One of my shortcomings (definitely not my only one) is that sometimes my thinking is a little too linear. Or maybe I should say rigid.

Something that has perplexed me for a long time is “What makes a Sensei?” Basically, what qualifies a person to be a Sensei? This perplex ion stems from a discussion I had with a fellow Aikidoka a few weeks ago regarding the differences in training between Japan and America. He was quit confused as to why brown belts (Ikyu and Nikyu) were teaching classes and being called Sensei. One organization I know of even requires brown belts to have x number of teaching hours before being able to test for Shodan.

In Japan there is a definite Sempai/Kohai/Sensei relationship. Here in the United States the lines seem to blur and these relationships take on less, or sometimes more significance.

What qualifies someone to be a “Sensei”? What kind of training, how many years, what rank, etc. Also, is it possibly a cultural difference that sparks this change in thinking?

I would be most appreciative if my esteemed peers on E-Budo could help me discover the many different ideas that surround this topic.

Thank you for your time.

TommyK
27th August 2000, 04:44
Hi Chad,

I think what you are saying (please correct me if I'm wrong)is what makes an Instructor.

In our eclectic style of Korean Karate we do not use the term "Sensei", but rather "Kyosah". This term refers to who is teaching the class. Very rarely, is this anyone below the rank of 1st Dan, Black Belt. Ocasionally, a 2nd kyu Brown Belt will teach (i.e., 'lead' the class)in order to be judged if they are ready (attitude, skill, etc.) to assume 'assistant' Instructor status as a 1st Dan Black Belt.

Full Instructors, require at least 3 years as a 1st dan Black Belt (2-3, 2 hour classes per week) and are severely tested on ALL aspects of training, from Hyungs (forms), rolling, falling, sparring, self-defense and leading/training the class. This process is not automatic and takes from 3 months to over 2 years of testing.

Once 2nd dan Black Belt is achieved, the person is considered a 'full' Instructor, and wears black, rather than white, pants as part of their uniform. In our school this process takes about 10 years, the fastest I have seen it accomplished is in about 7 years. I have been in our school 15 years and am in the process of being tested for Instructor status. I imagine this process varies, school to school.

Just thought I'd share our process with you, and I hope my assumption was right!

Regards,
TommyK

Chad Bruttomesso
27th August 2000, 22:21
Mr. TommyK,

Thank you very much for your reply. In answer to your assumption, yes and no. In Aikido sometimes you will find that the instructor of the class is referred to as Sensei and regarded as such no matter what rank they are. Thank you for helping me clarify this. What I should have asked is "What makes an Instructor and/or as Sensei, and is there a difference"?

Thank you for your time,

dainippon99
27th August 2000, 23:54
I think an instructor/sensei has to have a desire to see his students/freinds develop to a higher plane of living. Some instructors feel the need to keep people below them for their egos sake and not promote at all, but in my school of aikido we have always been taught that it is a poor student who does not exceed their teacher. I think that a true sensei/instructor has to have a desire to see this happen.

TommyK
28th August 2000, 00:00
Hi Chad,

Thanks for your kind remarks. I agree with you and B. David. The mark of a great Instructor is that you continue to learn while elevating yourself to a higher place. How much of this is found in technique and in a caring Instructor can be a matter of great debate. Let's just say that the Instructors, do what they do, for the students and no longer for the self.

Regards,
TommyK

MarkF
28th August 2000, 10:39
I believe sensei today is used more to mean Sir, Mr., Ms, etc. It is out of respect, but no matter what your grade, someone obviously younger than you, even if leading the class, should never be called sensei.

akiy
28th August 2000, 15:44
In Japan, whoever is leading any kind of class, whether it be a martial arts class or a bartending class, is called "sensei." There's nothign restricting anyone who is younger than you are to be called a sensei. Plenty of school teachers are called that by their children's parents, even if the teacher is younger than they are.

Christopher Li wrote a good article on this on AikiWeb:

http://www.aikiweb.com/language/sensei.html

-- Jun

Cas Long
29th August 2000, 02:16
If you trust your Teacher's lineage & judgement, if he/she
tells you that you are ready to teach, then this should be enough.

Cas Long

MarkF
29th August 2000, 10:52
I was only making a technical correction as it is just bad grammar to use sensei for someone a generation younger than you. What you chose to call your teacher doesn't matter. But in non-Japanese countries, the use of sensei is akin to saying Mr. Smith, sir, teacher, etc. It is said out of respect for the one who is the teacher.

There may be infinite resons why you, at fifty-two would call the twenty-five year old sho-dan or ni-dan sensei, but none have anything to do with the actual use of it. Also, a person leading a class who has a student that old would be wrong NOT to correct a student who is obviously older than he is. But the use of the title sensei here, has the same meaning as if you were to call him Sir.

szczepan
29th August 2000, 15:52
From technical point of view, not correcting more advanced(age or ranks) students(particularly those with 8th dan :D ) when they do mistake is of course wrong.But in reality it's extremly rare they'll accept correction from kohai.I call them dinosaurus, no way to save them.No sparring here to prove who's wrong&right :cry:

For sensei thing, it's social convention IMO and has nothing to do with correct usage of grammar or understanding japanese culture/language.(ex:In aikido of France there is only ONE sensei - Tamura sensei)

regardz

akiy
29th August 2000, 16:20
Originally posted by MarkF
I was only making a technical correction as it is just bad grammar to use sensei for someone a generation younger than you.
Actually, it's perfectly good grammar to call someone younger than you "sensei." Plenty of Japanese people use that term, as I wrote above, to refer to teachers and such who are younger than they are.

What you chose to call your teacher doesn't matter.
I'm a bit confused here. Weren't we talking about using the term "sensei" to refer to one's teacher?

But in non-Japanese countries, the use of sensei is akin to saying Mr. Smith, sir, teacher, etc. It is said out of respect for the one who is the teacher.
Right.

There may be infinite resons why you, at fifty-two would call the twenty-five year old sho-dan or ni-dan sensei
Or someone who is 52 calling someone who is godan at age 34 or rokudan at age 38; I've seen that happening, quite appropriately, over here in the States, too.

but none have anything to do with the actual use of it.
I'm, once again, a bit lost here. Are you referring to people not calling younger people as "sensei" or calling your teacher "sensei" as a sign of respect?

But the use of the title sensei here, has the same meaning as if you were to call him Sir.
I don't think I was commenting on the fact that many people use "sensei" as an address of respect but rather your supposition that just because one translation of "sensei" is "one who is born before" that it can't be used with people who are younger than you are. That's just not the case as, hopefully, I've pointed out.

-- Jun