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John McCollum
26th December 2002, 17:52
Hi all,

This question arose out of a thread in the Members Lounge titled "Quiz Time...What's wrong with this picture?"

Here in the UK, kyu grades are identified by different coloured belts. White for 5th kyu, yellow for 4th, green for 3rd, blue for 2nd, and brown for 1st kyu. Yudansha are attired identically, with plain black belts and identical federation badges.

I know that other places follow different sets of rules, such as differently coloured manji for each dan grade, the use of only two colours of belts for kyu grades, etc.

So my questions are these:

1. What's the "dress code" in your part of the world?

2. How did these differences arise? It has always struck me that Shorinji Kempo is essentially the same no matter where in the world one trains. Why is there such a big difference, given that we're all members of WSKO?

3. Is there any word yet on the new badge that was supposedly being introduced months (years?) ago?

Kimpatsu
26th December 2002, 23:48
Hello, Jon, and Gassho.
I'm the one who posted the Shorinji Kempo-related response in the Quiz Time thread, and was speaking of Japan, of course.
In Japan, as you probably know, there are two kyu grade belts, white and brown, but three for children (white, green, brown). Dan grades, however, change their manji colour (black, red, red and silver, gold, gold and silver), so ironically, it's easier to tell a dan grade's rank than a kyu grade's. The manji colour isn't iron-clad, however, because both shodan and nidan wear black, and both sandan and yondan wear red. The only way to be clear is to ask.
HTH.
Kesshu,

colin linz
28th December 2002, 07:31
Hi John,

In Australia we use a similar system to Japan. Green for kids, White for Gokyu, Yonkyu; and Brown for Sankyu, Nikyu and Ikkyu. Yudansha grades are Black Manji for Shodan, and Nidan. Red Manji for Sandan and above. We also used to use the Gold Manji for the Federation Head, however now that we no longer have a federation I guess that one isn’t currently in use.

Cheers
Colin Linz

Kimpatsu
28th December 2002, 08:28
Colin-san, gassho.
Forgive me, but what happened to the Australian Federation? I remember Hombu being delighted at the idea of a national Ozzie federation. So what went wrong?
Happy new year and kesshu,

Anders Pettersson
29th December 2002, 00:41
Gassho.

I thought I should add some things, since there are some details that are not 100% correct and some other things that have been omitted in some of the previous posts.

In Japan the Shonenbu (children's group) have white belt as minarai (there is no such thing as 9 kyu) and they have yellow belt for 8th-7th kyu, green belt for 6th-4th kyu and brown belt for 3rd-1st kyu. Accordingly they have a sleeve badge that indicates what kyu rank they have. This sleeve badge should be on the right sleeves upper part. You can find a description of these badges in the lower part of this page (http://www.shorinji-kempo.org/articles/sodesho/sodesho.html).
(As you can see on that link there used to be similar sleeve badges for adults as well).

When kenshi turns 13 years old they automatically start to practice according to the adult kamoku and if they are 2nd kyu as a child they will take 1st kyu according to the adult kamoku after they turn 13. In other words they do not have to start all over again when they get 13, if they already are shodan, the next test they will do as an adult is for nidan.
Shonenbu kenshi wear a green muna-sho (breast badge) when they are at kyu-level, if they get shodan as a child (under 13) they will have a black manji but the text (indicating shibu/doin name) will be green.


Adult kenshi in Japan take 3 kyu as their first rank (before that they are minarai, not 4th kyu). As minarai they have white belt and as kyu kenshi they wear brown belt, there is nothing to indicate the different kyu ranks among kenshi in Japan. In many countries (at least in Europe) one also uses a 4th kyu, which usually are half of the techniques for 3rd kyu.
Concerning muna-sho for adult kenshi in Japan, kyu kenshi wear a green badge, Yudansha will have a black badge. The red badge is not something that you automatically will have as soon as you get 3rd Dan. The rules say "Officer of a branch with at least 3rd Dan or above". I know several 3 Dan kenshi that still wear a black breast badge, in fact all sandan in Rakuto-doin in Kyoto wear a black manji. However in most branches, even in Japan, kenshi with 3rd Dan or above usually have some official function in their branch and therefore have the red badge.


The gold badge as Colin mentioned, does not have anything to do with the Federation. It is used by Shibu-cho and Doin-cho (branch masters). I've noticed that some branch masters in Australia did use a red breast badge even though they are shibu-cho (branch master), which seems a little strange.
There are a lot of different types of muna-sho for different ranks and functions, and you can find an explanation of all of them here (http://www.shorinji-kempo.org/articles/munasho/munasho.html).


There is also another type of badge, sode-sho or sleeve badge, used to indicate function/position rather than rank (however some of these badges differ slightly depending on rank). These sode-sho should be worn on the right shoulder. The lower part of the badge should be in line with the upper seam of the sleeve. The sode-sho issued by Hombu/honzan (such as Hombu Shidoin, Hombu instructor) should be on the left shoulder.
For a full detail of these badges you can look here (http://www.shorinji-kempo.org/articles/sodesho/sodesho.html).


As to how we "dress" in Sweden, we use the breast badge of "European" type (see bottom of this page (http://www.shorinji-kempo.org/articles/munasho/munasho.html).) however personally I prefer the other type used in other non Asian countries (the kanji for ken in the shield and green for kyukenshi etc.). And we use different colours for the belt of kyukenshi: 4th kyu - yellow, 3rd kyu - green, 2nd kyu - blue, 1st kyu - brown. For yudansha black and no stripes or other silly things.


/Anders

colin linz
29th December 2002, 10:06
Anders,

In Australia all branch masters use the red chest badge, the only gold chest badge was worn by Todoroki sensei as he was the head of the Australian Federation.

Cheers
Colin

Onno
29th December 2002, 22:51
Gassho__||__

Happy New Year!! well.... almost.

Here in Canada we follow the same rules as in Japan, as explained by Anders. Adults start as minarai kenshi and thier first grading is for Sankyu. We used to use the same manji as the Japanese do now for the munasho, but changed to the present (ken kanji in the middle) years ago. It mostly seems to be the Europeans that have the biggest differences with ranks and belts as far as I've seen. We also do not give out red munasho unless they are instructors at the club.

Take care all
Kesshu

Onno Kok
Alberta Shibu
Calgary Canada

Gary Dolce
30th December 2002, 15:30
Gassho,

Happy New Year!

Thank you Anders for the very clear explanation of belts and munasho. The information from your website was particularly helpful.

Since we don't yet have a national federation in the US, I can't be sure of what every Branch does here. But I am not aware of any current Branches in the US that do not follow the Japanese system of white, brown, black with adult beginners starting as minarai and progessing to 3-kyu, 2-kyu, 1-kyu, shodan, and beyond. I believe we all follow the Japanese approach with respect to munasho also.

Actually, one of the things that first attracted me to Shorinji Kempo was the perception that rank was less emphasized than in other "multi-colored" martial arts. I was quite surprised when I first learned many years ago that this approach was not universal among Shroinji Kempo Branches. So, going back to John's original question - does anyone know why these differences arose?

Gary

John McCollum
30th December 2002, 20:19
Gassho all,

Many thanks to all who have replied to this thread, and in particular to Anders-Sensei for his very full reply.

Reading these replies, it seems we in the UK are in the minority with our system of dress - I was under the typically British impression that it was the rest of the world that was out of step! :p



The only way to be clear is to ask.


Or challenge them to randoori!

:eek:

A great hogmanay to all, when it comes.

colin linz
30th December 2002, 21:39
Gary,

The differences in Australia’s rank structure came about because Todoroki Sensei believed that because of our cultural differences the Japanese started with a better understanding of Shorinji Kempo Philosophy, Therefore we needed to start at 5th kyu so we would have a similar understanding when reaching 3rd kyu.

Cheers
Colin Linz