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WJ55
28th December 2002, 05:56
Greetings,

I was just wondering if any of you have used ever spring loaded/airsoft BB/soft pellet guns in your training. I use a basic crossman brand spring pistol for added realism. Obviously, it goes without saying, I'm not actually using pellets or BB's.

I recently came across some sites that sell airsoft guns and related accessories.
This gun (http://www.airsoftpro.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AP&Product_Code=SGP2262&Category_Code=SG) I have been looking at, fires at about 200-230 fps., enough to let you know when you didn't get out of the way in time.

It seems, from the pictures I've seen around the internet, to be a pretty faithful rendition of a P226. These guys have everything from handguns to MP-5's and so on.

But in short, I was just hoping you guys could give me some feedback on these products and if they're suitable enough for gun defense. I figured I'd come here first, because this seems to be right up CQC's alley.

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Darren Laur
28th December 2002, 06:52
In my opinion, Airsoft weapons are some of the best training aids around, next to simmunition weapons. Money well spent, I have a couple here at the school. One thing to be aware of however, is that many of the Airsoft weapons do not cycle after being fired, you have to manually reload each time the weapon is shot. Some of the newer Airsofts do come in semi automatic models.


If your intent is to use Airsofts in weapon disarm training, always ensure that you keep your finger out of the trigger guard. No to do so WILL result in training injuries !!!!!!!!

Strength and Honor

Darren Laur

tonylfi4
29th December 2002, 13:51
I'll be able to tell you more when my HKP8 replica shows up tomorrow. I got it with some "enhancements," like more metal parts, ramped up gas cylinder making it so that 300'/sec for a .23 caliber "round" is possible as well as a flatter trajectory reported to be out to 15 meters in no wind conditions (we'll see on that one). Ron Mroz, a really good FTO in MA, is said to be a strong supporter of the use of Airsoft replicas, and I believe Andy Stanford as well (though I could be in error here).

the obvious value has to do with commonality of manual of arms; down side seems to be that the pellets don't pack as much punch as do the Simunition rounds. OTOH there's minimal clean-up involved after there use. Mine cost 265 dollars w/ the add-ons, extra "ammo," and shipping, somewhat more than a Sim kit to fit my HKUSP 9 full size.

HTH,

tony

mt2k
12th January 2003, 17:51
www.mlefiaa.org
They run training programs for airsoft instructors and I am sure they will be happy to answer your questions.
Ralph Moroz, I believe, is the one in charge of that program.
Ask the sec. to forward your request to him.
Matthew Temkin
Welcome to James Sass.
He has much to offer here.

tonylfi4
12th January 2003, 19:38
mt2k,

aaah, right you are, it is Ralph not Ron. I appreciate the info on the Airsoft sim instructor courses; just sent them an email asking for their schedule.

thanks again,

tony

tonylfi4
12th January 2003, 19:50
Went to the range this past Thursday w/ my shooting partner to try out the HKP8 Airsoft replica I just got. Fairly breezy day, I'd estimate 7-10knots, although berms reduced the cross-wind component somewhat.

using Red Gas and .25 cal pellets, the P8 was POA-POI for 7 measured meters. Pellet hit a standard IPSC target w/ enough force to impart a noticeable dimple in the cardboard. Also, with an IPSC target at 3 meters and another at 7 meters behind it, pellet went through adn through the 3 meter target and impacted the 7 meter target w/ enough force to show a slight dimple on that target.

At 20 meters, POI was noticeable affected relative to POA by the wind conditions. COM hits required that I hold low by approximately one to two front sight heights, although no lateral displacement was required. At that distance there were very slight dimples on the IPSC target.

I then stood 7 meters from my buddie who placed a very careful shot in the middle of my jacketed back. I could feel the hit w/o pain and clearly heard it impact. W/ my jacket off, and only a Patagonia polar fleece pullover on w/ T-shirt underneath, my parnter "shot" me at a distance of 3 meters. THAT HURT!! and left a noticeable "red dotted welt" on my chest which was visible there 3 hours after the training session.

I'm satisfied that this replica will do the job of allowing realistic force-on-force training; gas and "ammo" are lots less expensive than Simunitions and there are no OSHA regs to comply with (that I know about, anyway), no clean up required. Also, I REALLY liked the commonality of the manual arms with my real P8 (which I left at home in the safe so as not to confuse the two - REALLY EASY TO DO).

It remains to be seen how durable these weapons are if used extensively, although I expect that w/ proper maintenance, that shouldn't be a big problem (I hope).

tony