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D42
29th December 2002, 10:43
Hello.

XXXX

Thank you.

Aelita Sonnekoenig ..-||D42.

MESSAGE EDITED DO TO RULE VIOLATION

D42
12th January 2003, 02:25
Hello.

May I know what 'rule violation' caused the
censorship of our post? I represent neither
a blatantly commercial organization, nor a
corporation, nor have I insulted anyone by
offering high quality museum : internationally
recognized media - artwork for sale at this forum?

The media offered is Iaido : Shinto : Shugendo
related and is suitable for wall + room decoration
and meditation. It is a direct result of our
practice of the above.

I have attempted to contact the moderator via
private message, to no result. A clarification
would be much appreciated, and mutually beneficient.
The silence is unbecoming to either mutual respect
or correct behavior, within a dojo or otherwise.

Danke.
Aelita Sonnekoenig for -IID42
D42.geschaeft : www.cafeshops.com/D42

D42
12th January 2003, 02:50
Actually my question is to M. Lindsey,
with apologies to Joseph Svinth.

The original announcement was posted to this
forum and the 'buy, sell, and trade' moderated
by M. Lindsey. I was uncertain aboout which forum
is more appropriate, hence the double post.

To my surprise, the post was removed entirely
from 'buy, sell, or trade' even though--again
I do not represent a corporation or blatantly
commercial organization. There was no notification,
and no explanation.

So I restate my request for clarification,
this time to M. Lindsey.

Aelita Sonnekoenig for ÍID42
D42.geschaeft : www.cafeshops.com/D42

John Lindsey
12th January 2003, 16:34
I do not represent a corporation or blatantly

Hi,

Sorry for the confusion. You don't have to be part of a corportation to be involved in commercial sales. Many people today are trying to sell a product as you are doing, through the internet. You probably have to pay a fee to have your site hosted, or have some kind of agreement with the host. If you contact me by private messaging, I can explain the options you have in getting your product listed here. For instance, you could donate some of your work to e-budo, and I could use it as a prize to award one of our members (we used to have triva contests and will be having one soon).

There are some companies and authors that I allow to post ads, because I feel they are of value to our members. I just went to your website to try and view your artwork and to learn more about your services, but could not view the pics for some reason.

D42
13th January 2003, 08:06
Hello M. Lindsey,

Sorry for the confusion.

.I don't see what you are sorry about. You are not
responsible for my actions; the comment is pure
attempt at patronization. No, thank you.

You don't have to be part of a corportation to be
involved in commercial sales.

.Nor_ are we involved in commercial sales, no
matter how much you attempt to misrepresent that.
You even took the 'liberty' of cutting of the
comment where it suits you. A comment which
states that we are not a corporation NOR involved
in commercial sales. So for your sake, I will
repeat it : I am representing neither a
corporation nor a merchant / mercantile
commercial organization. We are not offering
merchandise . We are not here to trade or
advertise. We are offering Fine Artwork of
exceptional quality recognized by museums
internationally. The cost of our work itself
is anywhere between 2,500-10,000 USD. I am
not sure how you fancy a 'donation' of
such an object, and the arrogance which might
motivate such a request. We are also offering
cheaper, but not cheap limited editions of
prints, and documentation, as well as art
objects. The cost of these is 100-500 USD
currently. I don't see how you expect a
'donation' of this sort as well. Even worse,
youi're attempting to extort / force a
donation. A donation is a fully voluntary
act, not a passive-aggressive attempt at
extortion of cheap / free slave labor.
We will absolutely never_ subject any_
Fine Artwork to such treatment, and I find
your attempt to force such a treatment
thoroughly reprehensible.


Many people today are trying to sell a product

.We are not many people. We are a group of highly
unique, exceptionally talented individuals, who
due to the amount of work on oneselves and other
factors are quite far from the ordinary, and
certainly very different from 'many people'.
We are indeed--unique. What we offer is unique.
I am not sure where in budo conduct fits your
attempt at disrespecting us by misrepresenting
us, and then delegating our individual presences
to some imaginary group of people to whom we
absolutely do not belong, which I had made
abundantly clear both in the post which you
censored and all the subsequent ones. Among the
the basic premises of budo across all martial
disciplines is to stay vigilant, not delude
oneself, respect your enemy, not fight 'dirty'
<passive-aggressively>. Only militant pugilism
perceives individual humans as a faceless mob.

.We are most definitely and solutely NOT selling
a product. Do avoid attempting to displace the
intent of what we do with some wishful opinion
on your behalf. We do exactly and precisely
what we do, not what you wish we did so you may
more comfortably proceed with extortions. When
I asked for an explanation, I did not ask for
a rewriting of what we do and some delusional
fantasizing thereafter. I am more than aware of
the easy pitfalls with 'people trying to sell
stuff,' and have done quite a bit to prevent
such a misunderstanding. The blatant ignoring
of my efforts is either wilfull or utterly
negligent.

.Again : We are involved in Fine Art practice,
which has nothing to do with commercialism or
merchantilism of any sort, and your mistake
would be excusable were it not that we made
this clear in our prior post, and you attempting
to over+ride what we are doing with your wishful
opinion in order to extort services or
merchandise, which is most despicable. We
offer Fine Artwork, Fine Artwork Objects, and
an attempt to extend the performance space into
daily practice--much like the extension of
dojo practice into daily life. You, on the other
hand, are attempting to enforce your unjustified
opinion of what we do as the reality of what we
do, and this is simply offenjsive, disrespectful,
and selfish.

.By requesting an explanation, I was hoping to
open an avenue of reasonable resolution of this,
while you seem to have taken it as 'weakness' on
or possibly subservience on our behalf--and are
proceeding with absolutely arrogant and absurd
requests on your behalf.

as you are doing, through the internet.

.No, actually this is not_ at_ all_ what we are
doing. Regardless of how gard you try repeatedly
to enforce an opinion as reality.

You probably have to pay a fee to have your site hosted, or have some kind of agreement with the host.

.What the situation is there hasn't got anything
to do with your situation here. In fact, you're
throwing out empty speculations without checking
into any facts. This is akin to attempting to
throw sand in our eyes.

You have chosen to have two forums 'buy, sell,
or trade' and 'media, books, etc.' Especially
for the former, you have made it open. You cannot
decide when it pleases you_ that suddenly some
post is of commercial venture type, when it is
not. Things are what they are, not what we wish
them to be.

What we do doesn't contradict either, save for
obviously interfering with selfish greed on your
behalf. Before posting I did familiarize myself
with all avaliable visibly rules, and have
in 'mind' basic Budo code of conduct. Hidden rules
which alter as you please, in this case are very
much a violation of power, as this is an open
forum, and yes I would respect your judgement
as a moderator, if indeed that is what you were
offering.

.Just like in any gallery, you and your forum
audience are welcome to look, yet if they want
to take a piece home it costs. Nobody is obliged
to buy. And again, this is not_ product anymore
than the practice of Fine Arts by samurai or
dojo fees are mercantilism. And development of
Fine Arts and Focus / Meditation / Spiritual
Disciplinhe are very much a practice of Budo.
Your forums are drastically lacking in any such,
and if your attitude is such as I observe, that
is absolutely not surprising. Fine Art is not
cheap, not free, and very much a gift of high
honor.

.Merchandise is something else. I am not offering
any such.


If you contact me by private messaging, I can
explain the options you have in getting your
product listed here.

.I am not offering a product. I'm also not sure
why you fancy that you'll misrepretsent what we do
as cheap mercantilism, and having attempted to
offend our work and to degrade it to something it
is not, you will attempt to do something akin to
selling us advertising space. Do you actually
fancy us naive? Stupid?

For instance, you could donate some of your work
to e-budo,

.No, we couldn't. There is a vast difference b/n
provoding a forum and Fine Arts. Nor do we
produce anything that is suitable for prizes.
A piece of Fine Artwork is just like a high end
sword piece. Do you approach Tozando with requests
for donations? Do you give out masterful pieces
of sword forging at your contests? We think not.

.Additionally, you have made choices to provide
a free forum; we have not made choices to provide
free Fine Artwork. This is not negotiable, with
the exception of monetary transaction.

and I could use it as a prize to award one of our members (we used to have triva contests and will be having one soon).

.What we do absolutely does_ not_ merit 'trivia
contests'. If you would like merchandise designed
for your contests, that could be discussed in
terms of costs as well.


There are some companies and authors that I allow to post ads, because I feel they are of we value to our members.

.As is what we do. Except for you are simply
greedy and jealous, among other things.

I just went to your website to try and view your artwork and to learn more about your services, but
could not view the pics for some reason.

.Which is either a lie or blatant and willful negligence on your behalf. I assure you there is
absolutely NOTHING wrong with our pictures, and if
you had troubles accessing them, it is your_
fault_. I am not an amateur. I, personally, have over 25 years of professional, high-end media and
technical experience. I am not sure why you seem to
think that continuous unjustified attempts at
condescension and degradation of our WORK will
get you anywhere. Perhaps you fancy that if you
beat humans up on their lack of self-worth, they'll
degrade themselves to being your slaves, and offer
you unjustified free labour or expensive gifts?

.You seem to have confused--like many people--the
job of a moderator with that of a third world
petty dictator. Had you, in fact approached us
woth a reasonable, respectful, honorable, and NICE
request, it's entirely possible that we would have
considered setting upa small section of e-budo
merchandise designed especially for your needs,
by high end artists for a small % fee, since you're
non-profit. That way, you could have made enough
money from people buying merchandise, to afford to
have specialty items designed for contests, etc., and probably have some left over. This_ is how business is done. Not_ via slave labor extortion, bullyism, abuse of authority, and condescesnsion.

.What you_ have done is appallingly despicable.

Aelita Sonnekoenig for -IID42
D42.geschaeft : www.cafeshops.com/D42

JimmyCrow
13th January 2003, 17:20
John,

I have to say you are one patient man. I don't understand how you endure a lot of the crap that goes on here on e-budo much less this guy. Maybe you should quit your job, run this BB full time (for F@#king FREE) and let all the members here dictate all the rules to you.

QUOTE:
A donation is a fully voluntary act, not a passive aggressive attempt at extortion of cheap / free slave labor.

How dare you John. With all these untold millions you are making on e-budo you still demand alms from the pore disenfranchised "High End" art dealer. What's next? Are you going to demand some of those big Koryu and Nippo dollars as well

QUOTE:
You have chosen to have two forums 'buy, sell, or trade' and 'media, books, etc.' Especially for the former, you have made it open. You cannot
decide when it pleases you_ that suddenly some post is of commercial venture type, when it is not. Things are what they are, not what we wish them to be.

Maybe you should build a new Forum just for "High End Non-Donatable Art" and make this guy the moderator. I don't know how I have made it this long without a martial arts BB where I could buy some really good, quality, high end art.

QUOTE:
...you have made choices to provide a free forum; we have not made choices to provide
free Fine Artwork. This is not negotiable, with the exception of monetary transaction.

You gotta love people with a "My way or the Highway" attitude on YOUR Free Bulletin Board. I guess they spent all their advertising dollars on that crap web site and now need you to spread the word for FREE for them. How dare you refuse their demands

QUOTE:
...I am not an amateur.

I agree, your a tool. It doesn't matter if your a little girl selling lemonade and cookies, you aint selling it here without John's permission.

Keep up the good work John.:smilejapa

Oh, by the way I was able to see some of the stuff on that web site. Not exactly what I would call "High End" art. Unless by "high" she ment state of mind, instead of price. Check out the pic. below from the web.

O'Neill
13th January 2003, 18:30
This is Mr. Lindsey's world lady and you have been allowed to visit, so calm down! The nerve. John has provided a wonderful forum for our use and you speak to him like that, what gives? Take your artwork and shove it up your butt- Ms. Talented.

Artists can be so touchy. Your lucky that your not booted off of E-Budo. Too much coffee is a bad thing dude.

John Lindsey
13th January 2003, 20:39
We are involved in Fine Art practice

Ok, can you explain to me how someone who is an artist and involved in Fine Art practice can share their art with the world (for a fine art price)and not be considered as conducting business, in a fine art of commercialism sense?

When I went to your website, I tried to find artwork related to iaido, shinto, etc. The only prints I found were the six prints like the one attached below. Is this the iaido artwork, showing crossed swords? I even visited your linked site at www.punkassbitch.org and could not find the art.

(note to e-budo members: that really is her URL and not my attempt at fine art satire)

JimmyCrow
13th January 2003, 20:55
That website (www.punkassbitch.org ) reminds of Dieters Dream from the SNL skit "Sprockets".

Liebe meine abst-monkey.

Onmitsu
13th January 2003, 21:23
We are most definitely and solutely NOT selling a product


We are not offering merchandise . We are not here to trade or
advertise. We are offering Fine Artwork of exceptional quality recognized by museums internationally.

I think I understand.
"Fine Artwork of exceptional quality recognized by museums" is not a product. Somehow it is beyond human comprehension as a mere 'thing' or object which can be bought or sold. Just as the spiritual can not be explained in mundane terms so to can "Fine Artwork of exceptional quality" not be classified in the profane physical universe.
How dare we make this suggestion?
But....


The cost of our work itself is anywhere between 2,500-10,000 USD.

We are also offering cheaper, but not cheap limited editions of prints, and documentation, as well as art objects. The cost of these is 100-500 USD currently.
There it is isn't it?
The mention of the sordid coin. How ugly.
It doesn't matter if it's dog feces in a box or the Taj Mahal, if it has a price tag attached to it then it is for sale. Wouldn't you agree? Wouldn't that make it SELLING something? If one can buy it then one has to SELL it.

"We're not SELLING fine art prints, Oh No! We are offering them for $2,500-$10,000 USD! Can't your feeble minds grasp the Difference!"



We are a group of highly unique, exceptionally talented individuals, who due to the amount of work on oneselves and other
factors are quite far from the ordinary, and certainly very different from 'many people'. We are indeed--unique. What we offer is unique.

Indeed you are unique. Uniquely pretentious and unordinarily rude.

My armpit odor is also very unique. I will offer it to you for 100-500 USD. Mind you I'm not selling it. It is unique and highly creative and I consider it the highest of fine art that someone as unique as myself can offer. My armpit odor is recognized internationally even though I am different from 'many people'. I have to point out that as 'fine art' my armpit odor is not
cheap, not free, and very much a gift of high honor.

George Kohler
13th January 2003, 22:05
Originally posted by D42
The media offered is Iaido : Shinto : Shugendo
related and is suitable for wall + room decoration
and meditation. It is a direct result of our
practice of the above.



Originally posted by D42
The cost of our work itself
is anywhere between 2,500-10,000 USD.

Looks like blatant commercial advertising to me.

Please SPAM other Martial Art Forums and not E-Budo.

Patrick McKee
13th January 2003, 23:55
Seems like two quotes from her (big assumption there!) web site pretty much sum it all up.:-)

Accomodation to the absurd readmits adults to
the mysterious realm inhabited by children.
.
.
. .
.
.

.

The mind, placed before any kind of difficulty,
can find an ideal outlet in the absurd.

O'Neill
14th January 2003, 18:43
Armpit masterpieces! Hey, I have some smelly boxers that I can "offer" for $ 5.00, any takers. I have a godan in fart ryu poojutsu- anyone interested? And with every four pair that you "accept", you get a poojutsu certificate of rank.

D42
17th January 2003, 12:52
John,

I have to say you are one patient man. I don't understand how you endure a lot of the crap that goes on here on e-budo much less this guy. Maybe you should quit your job, run this BB full time (for F@#king FREE) and let all the members here dictate all the rules to you.


.Nobody implied anything of the sort.
He is responsible for making a choice.
He attempts to abuse selectively some rules
in order to extort labor, money and or artwork.
If you fail to see the problem with the above
my symapthies.

QUOTE:
A donation is a fully voluntary act, not a passive aggressive attempt at extortion of cheap / free slave labor.

How dare you John. With all these untold millions you are making on e-budo you still demand alms from the pore disenfranchised "High End" art dealer.


.We are not art dealers. Keep your hallucinations to yourself.
And yes, what we do is High End Fine Art.
Despite your sarcastic childish posturing, and nose wrinkling.


QUOTE:
You have chosen to have two forums 'buy, sell, or trade' and 'media, books, etc.' Especially for the former, you have made it open. You cannot
decide when it pleases you_ that suddenly some post is of commercial venture type, when it is not. Things are what they are, not what we wish them to be.

Maybe you should build a new Forum just for "High End Non-Donatable Art" and make this guy the moderator. I don't know how I have made it this long without a martial arts BB where I could buy some really good, quality, high end art.

.You are missing the point and attempting to change the subject.
Your cheap juvenile attempts of infantile below bashing are
reflective of your stupidity only.

QUOTE:
...you have made choices to provide a free forum; we have not made choices to provide
free Fine Artwork. This is not negotiable, with the exception of monetary transaction.

You gotta love people with a "My way or the Highway" attitude on YOUR Free Bulletin Board.

.And that is NOT our attitude. That is actually his attitude.
Avoid attempting to slap your wishful projections onto us.

I guess they spent all their advertising dollars on that crap web site and now need you to spread the word for FREE for them. How dare you refuse their demands

.Our website is not crap. No matter how much you froth at the mouth :)

QUOTE:
...I am not an amateur.

I agree, your a tool.

.No dearest. The only tool here is you.

It doesn't matter if your a little girl selling lemonade and cookies, you aint selling it here without John's permission.

.What an idiotic statement. Yes it DOES matter what one is sellibg,
and if Joohn wants to run a little forum in order to inflate his own
ego--that is fine. But there is a big difference between that, and
running a public forum with supposed rules.

Indeed you exhibit tremendous idiocy by all of this posturing
and support of openly dictatorial behavior.

Keep up the good work John.

Oh, by the way I was able to see some of the stuff on that web site. Not exactly what I would call "High End" art.

.Actually it is. Your failure to discern is your own problem.
As is your desire for cheap put downs.

Unless by "high" she ment state of mind, instead of price. Check out the pic.

.No dear. We didn't mean a state pf mind. We meant exactly what
wrote: High end Fine Art. Which is what we offer.

Your infantile posturing is about as intelligent as prancing about
the dojo screaming aren't I interesting.

The picture below is your own idiocy, as well/


below from the web.

D42
17th January 2003, 12:58
The media offered is Iaido : Shinto : Shugendo
related and is suitable for wall + room decoration
and meditation. It is a direct result of our
practice of the above.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by D42
The cost of our work itself
is anywhere between 2,500-10,000 USD.


.Actually it isn't blatant advertising at all.
If you paid attention worth 2 yen, you'd notice
that I am not selling the ACTUAL ARTWORK.

The above was a clarification of the idiocy of John's request.
Not a SALE OFFER.
Your own idiocy is apparently quick to follow.

Nobody is spamming anything.
Avoid attempting to manipulate what we did in order to come out
right.
This is called cheap politicking.

D42
17th January 2003, 13:07
This is Mr. Lindsey's world lady

.No this is a public forum run by M. Lindsey.
There is a big difference.
Keep your patronizing idiocy to yourself.

and you have been allowed to visit, so calm down!

.This is a PUBLIC forum dear. Not something anyone is 'allowed to
visit. Only petty dictatorial idiots run public forums as if they
are their backyards.


The nerve.

.There is no 'nerve'. Any self-respecting human would have done the
same.

John has provided a wonderful forum for our use and you speak to him like that, what gives? Take your artwork and shove it up your butt- Ms. Talented.

.No, John has obviously NOT provided a 'wonderful forum'.
He has provided a forum where users are required to play along as
slaves to his ego.

Your rude xommentaries are reflective of your own state
of self-debasement.

Artists can be so touchy.

.Meaningless drivel. Artists are individuals. They are nota stereotype.

Nor was our reply TOUCHY.

It was precise and to the point and EXACTLY deserved by M. Lindsey.


ur lucky that your not booted off of E-Budo. Too much coffee is a bad thing dude.

.Too bad there hasn't been ANY COFFEE 'dude'.
But maybe if you practiced real martial arts, you'd be capable of
sensing the true source of high energy.

And spare us the intimidating posturing of 'be grateful you're not booted'.
Perhaps YOU are a grateful dog who is whiney and 'thankful' that
his master didn't KICK him for existing and having a strong individuality, but no true martial artist is.

Budo is not the way of self-debasement and debasement of others.

Check your attitude at the door.

D42
17th January 2003, 13:12
Ok, can you explain to me how someone who is an artist and involved in Fine Art practice can share their art with the world (for a fine art price) and not be considered as conducting business, in a fine art of commercialism sense?

.Very easy. We are selling artwork. It is not merchandise.
There is no 'fine art commercialism'' regardless of your
attempted stringing of words.

If you cannot distinguish between fine art and merchandise,
then you require lots and lots of education.


When I went to your website, I tried to find artwork related to iaido, shinto, etc. The only prints I found were the six prints like the one attached below. Is this the iaido artwork, showing crossed swords?

.All of the artwork is. Specifically Iaido & Shinto related.
But one would have to be willing to LOOK rather than seeking to
dismiss. And if you seek an 'explanation' then you're obviously
very far behind in your iaido (and shinto) (and eastern practice
and philosophy) education.

These kind of realities are NOT subject to explanation.

I even visited your linked site at www.punkassbitch.org and could not find the art.

(note to e-budo members: that really is her URL and not my attempt at fine art satire)

.Certainly.

D42
17th January 2003, 13:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are most definitely and solutely NOT selling a product
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are not offering merchandise . We are not here to trade or
advertise. We are offering Fine Artwork of exceptional quality recognized by museums internationally.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I think I understand.
"Fine Artwork of exceptional quality recognized by museums" is not a product.

.It isn't. If you fail to distinguish between MERCHANDISE and ARTWORK, you have a severe problem.

Somehow it is beyond human comprehension as a mere 'thing' or object which can be bought or sold.

.Meaningless sarcastic drivel.

Just as the spiritual can not be explained in mundane terms so to can "Fine Artwork of exceptional quality" not be classified in the profane physical universe.

.Yes. EXACTLY. Just AS.

How dare we make this suggestion?

.And no amount of sarcastic monkeying is going to make an ounce of difference, besides reveal you to be the fool that youa re.


But....


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cost of our work itself is anywhere between 2,500-10,000 USD.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are also offering cheaper, but not cheap limited editions of prints, and documentation, as well as art objects. The cost of these is 100-500 USD currently.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There it is isn't it?
The mention of the sordid coin. How ugly.
.The 'coin' is neither SORDId nor UGLY.
Clearly we ARE selling ARTWORK and MEDIA.
And the posts were made in the appropriate FORUMS.
'BUY, SELl, or TRADE'.
The subsequent ATTEMPt at EXTORTION of MONEY for posting on the ALREADY EXISTING SELLING FORUM is idiotic dictatorial simpletonism.

As is the reductionof our work to merchandise.

It is NOT merchandiise, no matter how much you ironically posture.



It doesn't matter if it's dog feces in a box or the Taj Mahal, if it has a price tag attached to it then it is for sale. Wouldn't you agree? Wouldn't that make it SELLING something? If one can buy it then one has to SELL it.

.Amazing. Actually it DOES matter what one is selling.
Simpletonistic equalization of everything belongs to those]
lacking ability to discern.

Secondly, if you paid closer attention what we wrote is that we are not a COMMERCIAL ORGANIZATIOn. NO MORE than all of these people selling books, oor swords are 'commercial'.

If you fail to understand the difference between buying a hamburger, and buying a piece of fine art, then your state is that of attrociously debased inhumanity.

"We're not SELLING fine art prints, Oh No! We are offering them for $2,500-$10,000 USD! Can't your feeble minds grasp the Difference!"


.No actually WE ARE NOT OFFERING FINE ART PRINTS FOR THE ABOVE COSTS.
You seem to be illiterate to boot. The actual ARTWORK is in private
collections. It is NOT FOR SALE. Try payinga ttention.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are a group of highly unique, exceptionally talented individuals, who due to the amount of work on oneselves and other
factors are quite far from the ordinary, and certainly very different from 'many people'. We are indeed--unique. What we offer is unique.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Indeed you are unique. Uniquely pretentious and unordinarily rude.

.Actually we are neither pretentious nor rude. We are very precise and very polite. Politeness is not about tolerating your idiocy and swallowing crap. This is called sub-mediocre self-debasement and kitsch mannerisms. We assure you we ALL lack those.

My armpit odor is also very unique. I will offer it to you for 100-500 USD. Mind you I'm not selling it.

>meaningless sarcastic psturing, irrelevant to what was actually WRITTEN, dearest.

It is unique and highly creative and I consider it the highest of fine art that someone as unique as myself can offer.

.No dearest . Our work is recognized by collectors and museums internationally,
including several contemporary museums in Tokyo and Kyoto.

Wjat 'you' sarcawtically posture is irrelevant.

My armpit odor is recognized internationally even though I am different from 'many people'. I have to point out that as 'fine art' my armpit odor is not
cheap, not free, and very much a gift of high honor.



>meaningless drivel. Reflective only og your readiness to self-debase.

D42
17th January 2003, 13:40
So far to summarize:

Illiterate meaningless posturing which smacks of ignorance,
and an all too ready willingness to debase and disrespect
one's opponent.

No, it would seem the posters require years of martial arts
training first, before even getting to a state of being
where they can appreciate artwork.

And no, there is nothing pretentious about demanding that
artwork be treated properly. Regardless of your ignorant
and uncultivated posturings.

For the sake of willful ignorant idiocy: there is a buy
sell or trade forum, and a media forum. There are a
number of individuals selling media and books and swords
there. There is absolutely no reason why we should be charged
as if we are selling 'merchandise'.

Artwork is expensive. It costs.

Merchandise and crafts are another issue.

We offer none of the above.

No matter how much conveniently this is snipped.


If anyone is displaying vast amounts of rudeness,
ignorance and pretentiousness, it is the participators
of this thread.

Together with M. Lindsey the display is one of ridiculous
abuse of any sort of Budo code.

The basic premise of Budo is to respect one's opponent.
The basic premise of anyone wishing not to get slaughtered
in combat is to be free of delusions.

The lot of you seem to fancy that staying delusional
and posturing is intimidating.

There is an old japanese joke about the likes of you--
about those 'warriors' who wear 'scary devil's' masks
in cheap attempts to intimidate an enemy.


If this is representative of e-budo, and you of your
respective dojos, your display has been one of complete
disgrace to yourselves, your teachers, and your dojos.


And it smacks of western dilettantism.


Do us a favor.

If you don't want to appreciate thea rtwork or buy it,
don't make stupid commentaries.

They reflect you and only you.

Our comments on M. Lindseys dictatorial censorship still stand.

And are perfectly valid, despite numerous defensive bleating.

Perhaps it's time you admitted your mistake.

Or you could stay self-delusional and self-important if you like :)

The choice--as in any martial art situation is up tp you,
and an expression of your budo state.


At the moment, you sum up to dancing empty posturing clowns :)

Best wishes,
with utmost sincerity.

Aelita Sonnekoenig for D42
http://www.cafeshops.com/D42

Onmitsu
17th January 2003, 15:55
Dearest,

Thank you for taking your valuable time away from the creation of FINE ART OF EXCEPTIONAL VALUE in order to educate and elucidate each one of us in turn. We are duly chastised and are very sorry for even believing that we could use our own G-d given ability to think, judge, and reason for ourselves.

I just want to know one thing....

WHERE IN THE HELL IS THE "Iaido Artwork & Related Objects"!?!
They certainly aren't on your website. Have you hidden them?
Perhaps my feeble uneducated mind is unable to discern them.

The reason I take exception to your self important attitude is that my own Father has been involved in FINE ART for over 40 years.
He is regularly commissioned for work that exceeds $20,000.00 USD.
Somehow he doesn't have to SPAM an unrelated website in order to HAWK his wares. Why is this? It's because he is far too busy actually DOING the work to bother with trying to insult people into his point of view.

If we are so beneath you and what you are doing why bother posting here?

O'Neill
17th January 2003, 16:35
Great reply! They do take themselves way too seriously.

JimmyCrow
17th January 2003, 16:42
Originally posted by Onmitsu


The reason I take exception to your self important attitude is that my own Father has been involved in FINE ART for over 40 years.
He is regularly commissioned for work that exceeds $20,000.00 USD.
Somehow he doesn't have to SPAM an unrelated website in order to HAWK his wares. Why is this? It's because he is far too busy actually DOING the work to bother with trying to insult people into his point of view.



Greg,

This says it all. What your dealing with here is a DEALER not a DOER. The people who did the art on that web site have no idea what Sgt. Schultz is doing to sell it. Her life doesn't revolve around the art, it revolves around the commissions. You always hear artist saying "it's not about the money". How many art dealers do you hear saying the same thing? None of 'em. BMW's and Bling-Bling don't grow on tree's baby.

Why do you think she bothered to post on a martial arts bulletin board anyway? Does she care about, say "Do vs. Jutsu" or did she just do a Google search for BB's and spammed them all. Probably the latter, but you never know maybe she does kendo.
QUOTE:
.Our website is not crap. No matter how much you froth at the mouth

I beg to differ. Your site looks like a Kraftwerk video gone bad. And I would thank you not to draw attention to my mouth frothing problem (I am seeing a specialist).

By the way Aelita I found you a quote for your signature (since you are still a member of the same BB you proclaim to detest). Here it is:

"Vhy is it that the truly brilliant are doomed to a life of obscurity, surrounded by a sea of mediocrity, only to end up covered in sores in a pool of their own filth? Oh vell, the beat goes on." - Dieter

Charles Mahan
17th January 2003, 18:27
Aelita,

For the record, I have not seen your site. Nor am I at all interested. I'm just chiming in here to point out the obvious. Regardless of what you think of this site or the way it is run, you have made a great many enemies here, and the complete lack of support from any member of this bulletin board should tell you something.

I understand that you don't agree with the policy or the implementation of the policy which prevents you from posting the things you wish to post, but at this point does it really matter? Take a pragmatic approach here. Finding forums where you will be more welcomed would seem to be a better use of your time. You won't convince anyone that you are right. Even if Mr. Lindsey allows you to post whatever you want, the amount of animosity you have expressed towards this community will prevent anyone from ever dealing with you. Take it on the chin and move on. Allow us to wallow in our own juvenile state.

D42
18th January 2003, 03:19
Dearest,

.Keep your masochistic sarcasm to yourself.

Thank you for taking your valuable time away from

.No, you are not thankful, you are hypocritical.
And yes, our time is valuable, and it is not
for you to judge how we spend it. Try that dictatorial tactic elsewhere.

the creation of FINE ART OF EXCEPTIONAL VALUE

.Yes dear. We do create fine Art of exceptional value. It doesnøt matter at all how much you
bleat IN CAPS and posture sarcastically.
The value of what we do remains unchanged,
while yours diminishes.

in order to educate and elucidate each one of us in turn.

.Meaningless sarcasm. Our comments have
been valid, accurate, precise, and to the point,
As contrasted to yours, which consist of low
grade posturing.

We are duly chastised and are very sorry

.No, you are not.

for even believing that we could use our own G-d
given ability to think, judge, and reason for ourselves.

.You have no God given ability to any of the above. Certainly not to judge, and not to reason. You are not capable of thinking,
nor do you have an 'ourselves'. Those are
not abilities automatically given to anyone;
they must be cultivated like all else.
And you are not. You are wasting your energy
in pissy posturing.

I just want to know one thing.. WHERE IN THE HELL IS THE "Iaido Artwork & Related Objects"!?!

.At the URL on the bottom. Open your eyes.

They certainly aren't on your website. Have you hidden them?

.Yes, they are there. Your WILLFUL delusional
blindness is your own responsibility, and your
own problem. It seems that you donøt quite
seem to get it: if you choose to be a stubborn
ass and not cross the bridge, the bridge won't
ceas to exist and you will remain a stubborn ass.

Perhaps my feeble uneducated mind is unable to discern them.

.Yes, your feeble uneducated mind IS unable
to discern them.

The reason

.You have no reasons. You are simply attempting
to jusyify your assinine attitude.

I take exception to your self important attitude

.No, dear. There is not a yen of self-importance
or attitude in our behavior. Nor are you capable
of discerning such. What you have a problem
with is someone who won't play along with your
petty dictatorial game.

is that my own Father has been involved in FINE ART for over 40 years.

.Very good. YOU are not your father.

He is regularly commissioned for work that exceeds $20,000.00 USD.

.Good for him. Your father is irrelevant
to the situation, nor does his merit
automatically transfer to you. In fact,
you're a piss poor representation of him.


Somehow he doesn't have to SPAM an unrelated website

.This is not an UNRELATEd website, love.
This is Iaido & Shinto Fine Artwork.
It doesn't matter how much you insist
it isnøt, it is not YOU who is creator of the
artwork, and YOUR opinion is irrelevant.

in order to HAWK his wares.

.Nor are we HAWKING any wares, despite your assinine attempts to force your wishful myopic misinterpretations onto what we do.


Why is this? It's because he is far too busy actually DOING the work to bother with trying to insult people into his point of view.

.Cheap attempt at competitive bickering
inducement. Your father is not here.
Fight your own battles son.
Nobody is INSULTING anyone here.
What we wrote was acurate, valid,
precise, and to the point.

John Lindsey has a FREE Buy, Sell, Trade
forum. We posted there very apropos.
He censored us for NO REASON other than
attempt to extort money.

It doesnøt matter how much you posture
or brag about your father, it will not
change one bit that yours and Lindsey's
behavior is that of infantile, assinine
pugilists whose whole fighting behavior
is empty posturing and dirty fighting
attempts.

We are NOT your father.
What we do is an INDIVIDUAL affair thoroughly
unrelated to what he does.


If we are so beneath you

.Keep your wishful masochism to yourself dear.
The above is nothing that we have expressed.
Ah, but being a self-important egotist this
is all you CAN knee-jerk from : me on top or
on top, no?

That is WHY you feel THREATENED by anyone with
a sense of self-WORTH and SUCCESS.

And this is the motivational behind YOURS
and Lindseyøs behavior.

Dictatorial abuse of anyone who dares to be
successful.

Go peddle that trick elsewhere, love.

You have an open forum.

We posted according to rules.

Youøre attempting to CHANGE the rules
because you smelled a successful venture.

That dearest, is revealing of the state
of who you are : a base nest of rats.

But come on, do it again.

Knee-jerk from your self-importance.
Tell us about your FATHER behind whose coat-tails you need to hide.

Laughable weak and dishonorable un-Budo
behavior.

D42
18th January 2003, 04:02
Greg,

This says it all.

.No, dear. The only thing it says is Greg's
wishful delusions. That is cheap attempts
at sarcastic put downs, and some idiotic
faux authority evocation of his father
who is not present and here and speaking.


What your dealing with here is a DEALER not a DOER.

.No dearest. You are doing with a DOER. Very much so. The only non-DOER here is you.

We are not a dealer no matter how much you stomp
your little feet and froth. We are the artists.
And even if we were dealers, art dealership is not the same as blatant commercialism.

No more than selling Tozando blades is.
No more than selling Budo books is.

Not an ounce more, dearest.

There is no justification for your behavior
or Lindsey's cheap extortion attempts.


The people who did the art on that web site have no idea what Sgt. Schultz is doing to sell it.

.But we do, love. We are the artists.
The only Sgt (actually youøre not
worthy of that rank) here is you, dear.


Her life doesn't revolve around the art, it revolves around the commissions.

.You have no idea what anyone's life revolves
around, dear. Keep your wishful slapstick
commentary to yourself. You have no inkling
or insight into our lives, nor will you ever.

You always hear artist saying "it's not about the money". How many art dealers do you hear saying the same thing? None of 'em.

.No dear. We are the artists. Nor do you have
any experience of the artworld, despite
your posturing as if you do.

Nor do you have any insights into the artworld.

Nor does Greg for that matter.

Why do you think she bothered to post on a martial arts bulletin board anyway?

.That was CLEARLY stated repeatedly.
Try learning to read instead of attempting
to peddle your delusional speculations
as reality.

Does she care about, say "Do vs. Jutsu" or did she just do a Google search for BB's and spammed them all. Probably the latter, but you never know maybe she does kendo.

.No actually we are not the delusional
hallucinations inside your brain, little ape.

What we do hasnøt got nothing to do
with your wishful egotistical projections.

And no, you will not get an explanation
or justification.

Check your SELF-IMPORTANT the world revolves
around my DELUSIONS idiocy at the Dojo door,
dear.

This is a public forum.

We acta s individuals.

Our behavior is NOT justifiable to YOU at all.

QUOTE:
.Our website is not crap. No matter how much you froth at the mouth

I beg to differ.

.You may beg to differ all you please.
It's little but more useless posturing.
Meaningless, self-debasing and weak.

Your site looks like a Kraftwerk video gone bad.

.No, it doesn't. Your cheap slapstick
labeling idiocy hasn't got anything
to do with anything else besides your hurt ego.

Nothing in the universe looks LIKe anything
else, but if you had any real Budo experience
aside from infantile dilettantism, youød
know that.

And I would thank you not to draw attention to my mouth frothing
problem (I am seeing a specialist).

.No dearest. Thank you is not a method for passive-aggressive attempts
at dictating another's behavior.

Try that cheap, below the belt tactic ELSEWHERE.

We will stop pointing out your frothing when you stop frothing.

The Budoka says thank you to express sincere
gratefulness, not as a defensiveness posture.

By the way Aelita I found you a quote for your signature (since you are still a member of the same BB you proclaim to detest).

.Sorry dearest. We have made no proclamations
of detestation. Avoid attempting to ascribe
your wishful projections about our behavior
as having any validity.

We reflect what you do exactly because
it IS what you do. There is no detestation
involved.

As for your cheap attempt at dictating behavior
via 'suggestibility' do us a favor, and
keep it for yourself, dear ignorant ape.

Aelita Sonnekoening for IID42
http://www.cafeshops.com/D42

stevemcgee99
18th January 2003, 04:40
I really wonder if this is a joke? Did someone find this site on a search, and come up with the idea to put it on the Buy
Sell or Trade thread as a joke, then jumped at the chance to create a fake personae to start a flame war? It seems possible.

If not, this person is a psycho. There is such precision in the responses, it seems like a lot of "cut and paste" phrases, too. It reminds me of an arguing schoolkid. Also reminds me of this psycho guy who's getting fired for this same kind of stuff. If this person was to accept any misatkes on her part, she'd probably have a nervous breakdown. I wonder how much of this is cultural? Not much, I;d guess, but the "Sprokets" stuf is cracking me up! I haven't seen that stuff for awhile.

It seems this person doesn't understand the BB. Calls it "public", as if that means there are "certain, unalienable rights" for posting here. It's not here by committee of elected officials, it's paid for by one person.

If you're reading this, do you need to sell [offer, provide, etc.]the stuff on this site to make ends meet? Pay tax on any income?

John Lindsey
18th January 2003, 04:55
Here is a piece of free publicity, for a work of art donated by the artists known collectively as AC130 (similar to Sum41 and Blink182) They call this cone of fire and they perform it live in support of their world tour. Their next concert will be in Baghdad. If you happened to be in the area, stop by and check them out, its a real blast.

Phil Farmer
18th January 2003, 19:37
I was told about this thread by a student of mine. It is amazing and I too wonder if it is a joke. I will say this, if the person posting is real and in Europe, you might want to think twice about offending all of the people on e-budo. What you don't seem to understand is that not all of these folks live in the U.S. For example, the art I am associated with is much stronger in Europe and North Africa than it is in North America. All a war of words would get you is a series of emails to practitioners all over Europe that you are a fraud. I wonder what happens to your commissions and art if 15 or 20 thousand less people are not interested? Is that Volkswagen Beetle looking better in your driveway now?

John, you have my respect for putting up with this but I must say, she has provided some great entertainment.

Phil Farmer

hyaku
19th January 2003, 01:03
Originally posted by D42

Quote:If you cannot distinguish between fine art and merchandise, then you require lots and lots of education.

When I went to your website, I tried to find artwork related to iaido, shinto, etc. The only prints I found were the six prints like the one attached below. Is this the iaido artwork, showing crossed swords?
.................
Forgive me for saying so but if the knew the slightest thing about Iaido you would know that it is an artistic form within itself. That's why you cannot find "related" stuff such as artwork.

Also the relationship with iaido/shinto exists here in Japan. But it is distanced due to the links during WW2. Visits to Shinto Shrines by dignitaries or any martial group is very controvert issue nowadays. Then again if you are based in Germany you would know about things related to WW2?

I dont think anyone would seriously use a shopping cart to buy fine art off a site linked
punkassbitch.org. Do you?

Perhaps its time for you to re-think your business strategy. Your art may be fine but the way you conduct yourself and the words you use are hardly befitting. If you dont like this forum or the members why post here anyway?

Hyakutake Colin

JimmyCrow
19th January 2003, 03:59
I begin tonight with a quote from Dieter himself which best describes how I feel about this thread.

"You disturb me to the point of insanity. There. I am insane now."
*
Here is one of my favorite quotes from her last post:


This is a public forum.

We acta s individuals.

Our behavior is NOT justifiable to YOU at all.



I guess I have to justify my behavior to her while she does not have to justify her behavior to anyone. I guess this makes sense. She is, after all an Artist, Damn It!. A free thinker that is not bound by the rules of this world, much less this BB. Shame on you John Lindsey! I command you to immediately re-post her original entry to this thread. There is absolutely no reason for her not to be able to offer (not sell mind you) art for 5,000-20,000 USD. For she is not a art Dealer, but a art Doer. A intellectual of such high caliber it is shameful for us to even read her words, much less attempt to understand them. We truly are not worthy to respond to her post or even offer an opinion on her art or her web page.
Wait a minute, what am I saying...This Super B!tch can go piss up a rope for all I care. John don't you dare close this thread. I can honestly say that every time R2-D24 post it makes my day. Even if I'm the only person who gets his ass ripped by her I will be happy to let that happen for your entertainment.
I guess I could break her pompous ass post down line by line but what's the point. Her attempts at scorn make for some of the best comedy we have had on e-budo in a long time (You should read them to yourself with a real thick German accent like I do - Makes it twice as funny).

This quote is priceless


Nothing in the universe looks LIKe anything
else, but if you had any real Budo experience aside from infantile dilettantism, you?Pd
know that.


I guess I haven't been studying real Budo long enough. After six years of serious study a turd still looks like a turd to me.

Now neither I nor Greg have had as much exposure to the art world as her. This is quite obvious from our inability to take ourselves as serious as she does. But really, was this called for:


We are the artists. Nor do you have any experience of the art world, despite
your posturing as if you do.
Nor do you have any insights into the art world.
Nor does Greg for that matter.


or this...


We have made no proclamations of detestation. Avoid attempting to ascribe
your wishful projections about our behavior as having any validity.

We reflect what you do exactly because it IS what you do. There is no detestation
involved.
As for your cheap attempt at dictating behavior via 'suggestibility' do us a favor, and
keep it for yourself, dear ignorant ape.


That really hurts. Oh...I think I just heard something break inside me. I now leave you to go to my special place to Cry. Yeah right. I'll be back later to offer further commentary on Mrs. Romels next post. Until then...

"Now is the time on Sprockets vhen ve dance."

John Lindsey
19th January 2003, 04:29
Jimmy, I am having fun too!

BTW, I recently read that HBO or someone is doing a film about Hitler when he was a young artist. Was he even a good artist?

JimmyCrow
19th January 2003, 04:37
Originally posted by John Lindsey
I recently read that HBO or someone is doing a film about Hitler when he was a young artist. Was he even a good artist?

John,

Whether Hitler was a good artist or not is not for us to decide. Only one who has truly freed her mind may make that decesion, and that is the one known as D42.:cool:

George Kohler
19th January 2003, 04:52
Originally posted by JimmyCrow
R2-D24...

OMG, my beer is all over my keyboard and monitor.

Does anyone have any fine art that I can use to clean up this mess? I'm sorry, crap will only make it worse.

Jimmy, you owe me a keyboard.

JimmyCrow
19th January 2003, 06:27
George,

I can't offer you a new keyboard but I will be glad to give you this High Quality piece of art I purchased from www.punkassbitch.com to clean it with. The title of the piece on their web site is "Here Child, Finish Your Nothing". I don't know though, kind of looks like a cheap rip-off of "Dogs Playing Cards" to me. Only cost me $11,000. Well it seemed like a good idea at the time.
I showed it to Dieter and he had this to say...


I see genius. By seemingly embracing the cliches of the West, she is underscoring its excruciating banality. It's presence intimidates me to the point of humiliation. Would you care to strike me?


[Please note that the art wasn't actually sold to me. It was offered]

Kiz Belle
19th January 2003, 14:19
OMG! This chick just can't be serious, can she? I've had the biggest laugh from this thread. If you go to her site and look at her "iaido" pictures you will notice she is selling MECHANICALLY REPRODUCED PRINTS! (Sorry for the shouting fellow-forumites, but I'm all riled up) MECHANICALLY REPRODUCED PRINTS ARE NOT HIGH END ART! These are not Art Prints ie Woodcuts or Etchings. They are just plain old prints of original works. Reproduction prints are merchandise. They are only made to make money.

She also says she's also selling original works. Since she is the one to contact boards like this that makes her a dealer and/or gallery owner. I don't care if she is also an artist ("doer"), what's stopping anyone from being both?

This has either gotta be a dumb joke or someone trying to stir. I'm a full time artist and have met quite a few dealers/gallery owner's. Granted most of them seem to be plum crazy, but crazy in a "I can schmooze you into parting with $10,000's" way, rather than a "lose friends and irritate people" way like this lady. If this lady really is legit I can't see her being in business for long. Frankly, I don't think she is who she says she is. Frankly, I don't think she is who she says she is.

Oh, and by the way D42 (if your still here) I'm new here so I have no particular agenda with defending the owner or moderators of this site. Frankly I think it's their call what kind of posts get through. So what if they didn't let you post your ad? If the work's as good as you say it is surely you'll be able to sell it elsewhere? Your behaviour does you and your fellow artist a diservice. I doubt anyone here has been encouraged to purchase artworks via "cafeshops" because of this thread.

John Lindsey
19th January 2003, 15:23
Kiz,

Thanks for the comments. What kind of artist are you? Can you show some of your work?

Joseph Svinth
19th January 2003, 20:54
Examples (and discussions) of Adolf Hitler's paintings appear at

* http://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/artist/Kucera/pic7.html (A possible forgery, as it is more sophisticated than his later pictures)
* http://www.snyderstreasures.net/pages/hartworks.htm
* http://www.williams.edu/WCMA/prelude/prelude3.html
* http://members.tripod.com/~Propagander2/index-8.html

Where Hitler got into trouble was that he had trouble drawing animate objects (e.g., people and animals). Perhaps he couldn't empathize or relate? Anyway, he was, in the eyes of the art professors, essentially a draughtsman rather than an artist.

An original A. Hitler watercolor (his favorite medium) usually sells for between US $8-12,000.

As for original, early 21st century art purchased directly from a non-celebrity artist, figure on spending somewhere between $100-$1000, depending on the medium and the subject matter. More than that, and you're either paying for a famous artist's autograph or the dealer's mark-up.

My theory? Always buy direct from the artist, as the dealer usually gives the artist no more than 8-10% of the price paid by the buyer. No different from writing, really, where the author usually gets 4-8% of the cover price of the book, or boxing, where the fighter pays all the bills and taxes, and the managers take all the profit.

Kiz Belle
20th January 2003, 02:40
Originally posted by John Lindsey
Kiz,

Thanks for the comments. What kind of artist are you? Can you show some of your work?

I'm a printmaker, mainly, mostly linocuts, woodcuts and occasionly etchings. I also like drawing, and I've recently gone back to school (again) to study ceramics. I've also studied photography and stained glass at tertiary level (and gallery management/art business practice :D ), so I guess I'm really a jack-of-all-trades. I can't show you any of my stuff yet, because I don't have a scanner yet. (I'm getting one soon, though!)

Kiz Belle
20th January 2003, 02:49
My theory? Always buy direct from the artist, as the dealer usually gives the artist no more than 8-10% of the price paid by the buyer.

When paintings or other artworks are sold in art galleries, the gallery should usually take 30% or so commission on paintings sold. Still a hefty slug, though. Your idea of buying directly from the artist is always the best. On my "non-celebrity" wage I could really use that 30% extra.

Phil Farmer
21st January 2003, 17:24
Jimmy,

Thanks for the reference art. The "Poker Game" picture you posted makes sense to me now. I think our German friend may be legit after all. If that really is her artwork (and I, of course have no reason to doubt you)then I can say I saw it before, in an German establishment. You see, there used to be this German beer garden in New Braunfels, Texas and when I went in there, well the walls were covered with pictures just like this one, though with varying themes. So it is a German thing. . . who would have thought?

Phil Farmer

Onmitsu
21st January 2003, 20:06
Where Hitler got into trouble was that he had trouble drawing animate objects (e.g., people and animals). Perhaps he couldn't empathize or relate? Anyway, he was, in the eyes of the art professors, essentially a draughtsman rather than an artist.


"After the death of his mother and his second rejection
from the Fine Arts Academy, Hitler goes through his meager
savings and spends the summer and fall of 1909 as a
homeless person walking the streets of Vienna, sleeping
on sidewalks and benches, begging and eating in soup kitchens."

One can see how a young Hitler might have developed a hatred for the affluent jews that he encountered.

"Vienna...is to me only the living memory of the most
miserable time of my life. Even today it can awaken
only depressing thoughts in my mind. The name of this
Phaeacian city means five years of sorrow and misery.
Five years in which I had to make my living first as
a worker, then as a painter..."-Hitler

In December of 1909, he was driven by cold to move
into a temporary homeless shelter, ironicaly enough
funded by Jewish philanthropists.

Joseph Svinth
29th January 2003, 01:56
You'll have to send that description to Tony Kehoe. :)

Still, what to do about them Maple Leaf Trolls. You know, the ones who complain about how USA is taking over Canada, but conveniently forget about Seagrams, Lorne Greene, Leslie Nielson, and Shania Twayne...

(Overall, Canadians own about 10% of North America, which is about their population -- if you exclude Mexico. If you include Mexico as part of North America, then Canadians own a disproportionate amount of the continent.)

John Lindsey
13th August 2003, 04:25
This thread is being discussed AGAIN over on the Iaido-L list.

SLeclair
15th August 2003, 16:34
I don't remember any mention of this thread on Iaido-L. I did find it all by myself.

--text deleted--

Sorry, I was under the impression that the thread was active. I guess Mr. Lindsey's post just brought it back from the dead, and the person selling art really had stopped responding. I should learn to keep track of the dates the messages are posted :)

Sebastien Leclair

John Lindsey
15th August 2003, 16:49
This was posted on 8-12-2003 to the Iaido-L list:

What do these speculations have to do with anything? If this is the
'attentiveness' and
'focus' and 'awareness' level--on cannot imagine any sort of
non-choreographed real world fighting. Actually, I better not.

As for those who think that kendo is "just for fun"--do be aware of various
historical roots of the matter, very recent in fact, actually since WW2 is
the "emergence" of ANY sort of martial art as "entertainment," likewise the
separation of spirituality and martial arts.

Slandering, disrespectful and slighting attitude towards the matter merely
reflects on the purveyor's own ignorance and arrogance, as well as internal
laziness and lack of discipline. If you want to just have fun, put on a
kimono and learn to entertain, darling. Or proceed to entertain yourself as
you please--after all these days everything is a "business"--one of the
problmatric attitudes of e-Budo, an attitude which has been proliferated
*only* since WW2
by various profiteers. 60 years hardly consists in a "tradition"--while
amateurs fancy that their loudmouthed croaking perversion of traditions in
which they are GUESTS and hardly masters,
is very very important.

Might one suggest that if Mr. Lindsey were to display this attitude of
disrespect in an actual
real life Japanese situation, according to old fashioned traditions his
head would have been on the chopping block, and the rest of his |sword| a
practicing target for tameshigiri.


It would seem that certain loudmouthed and arrogant twits and I insist on
the matter fancy that martial artists are prostitutes at whom they will
wave a few dollars and everything will be bought, or the reverse, that they
are "owed" proofs and explanations.

Lastly, the "putting down" of another's go is largely a futile avoidance of
having to clean up one's own. Even in the cases where assistance with such
matters is a possibility, the person must be qualified, and not just
labeling whatever they dislike |ego|--or for that matter what was observed
is a rampant desire to flatten out and crush anything that is possessive of
internal force as "ego" by infantilisic flippant attitude.

That would be why martial arts in actuality are reserved for those proven
in spirit, while e-Budo forum seems to encourage the mouthing off to idiots
to strangers. And if we appear to be harsh it is not because of any
spirituality--only someone largely as arrogant as the "individual" posting
can possibly fancy that the westrn disease of proselytizing is
"universal"--and that we care whether you enjoy spirituality or not. It is
clearly an individual decision, suitable for mature individual and not kids
who "just want to have fun". Yet if you don't care about it, please do
stand up by your word, and please do NOT care about it--instead you're
using a cheap and kitsch passive aggressive "below the belt" "trick" of
attmepting to bounce yourself off those who do have charisma + energy as a
result of spiritual work in order to make yourself "shine".
Your I don't care about spirituality posturing is fraudulent and
unconvincing, and if you're indeed sincere, then do avoid accosting those
who do, because otherwise you're lik a cowardly princess sitting by the
water screaming "I don't care about swimming". One of these days
hopefully a water demon would have the common sense to eat you alive, and
then we can talk about it.

SLeclair
16th August 2003, 15:30
Oh, that thread! Sorry, I stopped reading that thread on Iaido-L after a few messages. I have to admit, reading the messages from D42 here, I can see how much disbelief and flames it can generate.

And this was the person that actually started the whole thing, I see. Interesting. I might just killfile anything from them in the future. But truly, it did generate traffic way out of proportion to the interest and usefulness of the content. Happens, though :)

Regards,
Sebastien Leclair